jere wrote:if you think I am fabricating a conversation feel free to look around the internet with a Google search you will find plenty of others with similar issues. I have no reason to to lie about something so meaningless. I like my shopsmith as much as any of you but they do have limitations no point in denying the fact. its better to find the flaws and fix them
jere: it is not my intention to call anyone a liar. We just have a difference in opinion regarding the performance characteristics of the Shopsmith. Furthermore, you are not the first person with whom I have had this discussion.
The Mark 5/V, because it is a multi-purpose tool, is not built rock solid. It could not have been and still been a viable home work shop. It is solid enough, however, to be accurate and capable of repeatable performance.
Peace!
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
jere wrote:if you think I am fabricating a conversation feel free to look around the internet with a Google search you will find plenty of others with similar issues. I have no reason to to lie about something so meaningless. I like my shopsmith as much as any of you but they do have limitations no point in denying the fact. its better to find the flaws and fix them
I did not think you were fabricating that tale!
Yes such comments are quite common especially from those not owning/using one.
I also did not think Dusty was saying so either.
I took Dusty's comment as questioning the veracity of the person whom you were quoting, not thee.
And yes Ed's and Dusty's and Bill's comments are accurate. My comment re the car door was extreme but meant to illustrate the point. Yes the table is a convenient push point, but I do not recommend doing that.
Some of us old fogeys can be quite blunt at times(this one especially), but our intention is to help/point out in a clear manner what we perceive as needed mind input to the 'target'. At times a bit of good natured humor is included, but we be laughing WITH you, not AT you!]https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/image ... rty-on.gif[/IMG]
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
It has been my experience, that when my SS cuts inaccurately it has been my own fault. I didn't do my 5 point check before making the cut and either the table, carriage, head stock, quill, or rip fence isn't properly locked. Yes, it is humbling, and embracing to admit it. Then there are also the occasions when I measured twice and still cut the board in the wrong place.
jere wrote:if you think I am fabricating a conversation feel free to look around the internet with a Google search you will find plenty of others with similar issues. I have no reason to to lie about something so meaningless. I like my shopsmith as much as any of you but they do have limitations no point in denying the fact. its better to find the flaws and fix them
Jere
I feel for you. I have felt the wrath of SS worshipers for saying similar things. You are right the SS does have limitations and to try to poo poo them or to ignore them does not make them go away. I too love my SS but I know you can shove a contractor saw around all day, throw it up into the back of the pickup and drop it off and the blade table alignment will constant.
Look at the difference in a contractor saws trunion attachment compared to even a cabinet saw. The cabinet saw that never gets moved attaches the trunions to the cabinet and the table to the cabinet. They can and do move independent of each other depending on the cabinet movement. Since most cabinets are little more than heavy gauge sheet metal a good shove will change the blade to table alignment. By good shove I mean like accidentally dropping a framed wall against the saw. Happens very often in a construction site.
This made cabinet saws almost worthless for contractors. So they built the contractor saw where the blade trunnions bolted directly to the table. If the bolts are tight nothing changes in the relationship between the table and blade. Perfect for contractors.
Of course the "Woodworker elite" don't understand this and rave about the superiority of the Cabinet saw. But I digress, sorry
Jere I know what you mean and I agree with you. And as the other Ed pointed out there are ways around the problems but you have to understand the problem and deal with it not ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist.
JPG40504 wrote:I did not think you were fabricating that tale!
Yes such comments are quite common especially from those not owning/using one.
I also did not think Dusty was saying so either.
I took Dusty's comment as questioning the veracity of the person whom you were quoting, not thee.
And yes Ed's and Dusty's and Bill's comments are accurate. My comment re the car door was extreme but meant to illustrate the point. Yes the table is a convenient push point, but I do not recommend doing that.
Some of us old fogeys can be quite blunt at times(this one especially), but our intention is to help/point out in a clear manner what we perceive as needed mind input to the 'target'. At times a bit of good natured humor is included, but we be laughing WITH you, not AT you!]https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/image ... rty-on.gif[/IMG]
OK thanks I see what you mean about dusty s post. somethings don't translate over the web as the would in person. i welcome difference of opinion but don't take well to being called a liar (which doesn't seem to be Dusty's intent after all )
Ed in Tampa wrote:Jere
I feel for you. I have felt the wrath of SS worshipers for saying similar things. You are right the SS does have limitations and to try to poo poo them or to ignore them does not make them go away. I too love my SS but I know you can shove a contractor saw around all day, throw it up into the back of the pickup and drop it off and the blade table alignment will constant.
Look at the difference in a contractor saws trunion attachment compared to even a cabinet saw. The cabinet saw that never gets moved attaches the trunions to the cabinet and the table to the cabinet. They can and do move independent of each other depending on the cabinet movement. Since most cabinets are little more than heavy gauge sheet metal a good shove will change the blade to table alignment. By good shove I mean like accidentally dropping a framed wall against the saw. Happens very often in a construction site.
This made cabinet saws almost worthless for contractors. So they built the contractor saw where the blade trunnions bolted directly to the table. If the bolts are tight nothing changes in the relationship between the table and blade. Perfect for contractors.
Of course the "Woodworker elite" don't understand this and rave about the superiority of the Cabinet saw. But I digress, sorry
Jere I know what you mean and I agree with you. And as the other Ed pointed out there are ways around the problems but you have to understand the problem and deal with it not ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist.
thanks Ed that is some good insight on the different saw styles and their intended purposes. that could very well explain the contractors opinion that I spoke with. I don't think he was incompetent by any means but maybe he had a different philosophy of use for his saws.
jere wrote:thanks Ed that is some good insight on the different saw styles and their intended purposes. that could very well explain the contractors opinion that I spoke with. I don't think he was incompetent by any means but maybe he had a different philosophy of use for his saws.
My son in law was a contractor and I was a silent partner that got to do some of the work. This enabled me to see many sub contractors and how they work, how they handle their equipment and excreta.
Interestingly almost all framing contractors used Makita circular saws. I noticed each time a different group pulled up out came the blue saw. Likewise many if not most plumbers used Ryobi cordless drills.
I was puzzled so I asked.
Makita was found to be the most rugged saw. In fact it was fairly common to see them fall from 8 foot high wall onto the concrete floor as they were cutting roof framing into place.
The Ryobi was a different story, they were considered disposable. If one broke before lunch doing lunch a run to the Home Depot got a replacement and if it broke after lunch a stop at the HD on the way home solved the problem. Don't want electricity (plugged in) around plumbing and water.
Also batteries were cheap and you could have a battery fight with all the dead batteries they had.
The life of a tool on a construction site is totally different than a homeowners tool's life.
I know what you're talking about Ed. I've worked with several contractors over the years. The Plumbers around here like the HD RIDGID drills. They can just take them back and exchange them even the batters, there is a warranty on them.
The roofers around here like the Ryobi line of tools like you said they consider them expendables. If one breaks just go replace it at the next break. I've seen crews that just drop them off the roof at the end of the day to save themselves one trip up and down the ladder cleaning up.
There is a framer around here that when he is done with his drill and needs to get a new tool, he just drops the drill or what ever tool he has at the time and goes and gets the next tool he needs. His cordless tools are all beat up.
Then there are the crews that come in and take care of their tools. They treat them like extensions to their own bodies. What is found in their tool boxes is usually much different than the tool boxes of those that are rough and carefree.
Contractor tools take a beating and get used all day long. My shop tools live a life of leaser in comparison.
I have now gotten everything in the shop reassembled and checked for alignment. The shorty needs some tweaking but that was expected since I had the trunnions off of the table.
The objective of this exercise was multifaceted but one purpose was to evaluate flex of the Main Table. Yes, as previously acknowledged in post #62 of this thread, there is some flexing of the Main Table.
If I grasp the table, at the corners, and tug back and forth, I can measure some flexing; as much as .010". The good thing is that when the tugging force is relaxed, everything reverts back to normal.
That .010" of flex can be reduced by installing an extension table and tubes. This creates a four point stance that makes the table less susceptible to the tugging forces. It does not change accuracy; it only improves stability. No, it does not make the Mark V stand rock solid like a Delta Unisaw.
.015625 = 1/64 Good enough for all of my work. Besides, I can no longer read the markings at 1/128. Enough said about that.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
[quote="dusty"]I have now gotten everything in the shop reassembled and checked for alignment. The shorty needs some tweaking but that was expected since I had the trunnions off of the table.
The objective of this exercise was multifaceted but one purpose was to evaluate flex of the Main Table. Yes, as previously acknowledged in post #62 of this thread, there is some flexing of the Main Table.
If I grasp the table, at the corners, and tug back and forth, I can measure some flexing]
Well said!
I assume conclusions re the unanticipated 'discovery' will eventually surface?;)
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
