Double tilt upgrade

[Hami5297]

I just attempted to upgrade my Mark V, serial number 329420. The bench tubes are too large to fit. If i order new tubes does that require a new motor and bench table?
Or can these items fit the smaller diameter bench tubes.

[JPG]

I presume you have either a greenie or an early goldie. ONLY the bench tubes need to be replaced and 1/16" shims to provide correct c-c spacing.. Your tubes are 1 7/8 od.

[DLB]

I just attempted to upgrade my Mark V, serial number 329420. The bench tubes are too large to fit. If i order new tubes does that require a new motor and bench table?
Or can these items fit the smaller diameter bench tubes.

If your DT upgrade is complete it will also contain new double rack main table tubes that are intended for a Model 510 and on main table. These are the tubes that elevate the main table, the double rack allows the table to be reversed for under table operations. I've heard of people installing them in a Model 500 or pre-500 table like you likely have, but I don't recall seeing instructions for doing so.

- David

[chapmanruss]

Hami5297,

First off, welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

Below is the information given on the Double Tilt Upgrade online catalog page.

Note: For MARK V 520, 510, 505 / MARK 4 Only -- The MARK V 500 does not have interchangeable table support tubes.

Note: Older MARK V 500 machines (produced before 1972) that have been upgraded to the MARK V 520 or 510 table system will require two new 1-3/4" diameter bench tubes (504163). The old 1-7/8" diameter bench tubes will not fit in the new base castings.

Your Mark 5 serial number 329420 was made in 1956 (a Greenie) and would have the larger 1-7/8" OD Bench Tubes as JPG said. All the Mark 5/V Shopsmith's going back to their introduction in 1954 to today have the same diameter Way Tubes.

As for the first note from the catalog page, the original AKA Mark V 500 Table System has the posts attached differently than the Mark V 510/505, 520, 520S, Mark 7 & 4. Pages 11 & 12 of the Double Tilt Base Upgrade Instructions shows changing the Table Posts. There you can compare the difference in the Table Tie Bar and Posts to those shown in the instructions for the later Mark Models in which the pins holding the posts are easily removed. In the picture below you can see both sides of the Table Tie Bar and posts. In the first picture the pins holding the posts in can be seen indicated by the arrows and in the second picture you can see the pins do not go all the way through the Table Tie Bar as they do in the later Models 510/505, 520, Mark 7 & 4. Also, the pins are located 90 degrees off from the later model Table Assembly.

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Greenie Table Tie Bar and Posts pins.jpg (369.39 KiB) Viewed 345 times

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Your Table Tie Bar and Posts should look just like this one pictured here above and below. If it does not than something has been changed at some point by either an upgrade or parts replaced.
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Greenie Table Tie Bar and Posts side a.jpg (385.33 KiB) Viewed 345 times

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The pictures below show the differences of the Tables/Fence Rails between the different Models. Yours should be the 500 which is the original Table. Not all original AKA 500 tables have the extra slot. The extra Table slot was added in the late 1950's (after the Mark 2 was introduced) and discontinued in 1980.
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mark V 500 table views 2.jpg (14.39 KiB) Viewed 345 times

mark V 505 510 table views.jpg (23.13 KiB) Viewed 345 times

mark 7 mark V 520 table views.jpg (23.14 KiB) Viewed 345 times

[Hami5297]

Thank you for your reply and assistance, so I will plan to order two bench tubes of the 1 7/8 diameter to complete the double tilt upgrade.
Thank you, again

[JPG]

You already have 1 7/8" bench tubes. You need 1 3/4" tubes(only size currently available from the mother ship). You WILL need shims to ensure the correct c-c spacing. The bench tubes press against a boss in the end castings that is shorter on your castings than the current version.

[jsburger]

You already have 1 7/8" bench tubes. You need 1 3/4" tubes(only size currently available from the mother ship). You WILL need shims to ensure the correct c-c spacing. The bench tubes press against a boss in the end castings that is shorter on your castings than the current version.

I thought all bench tubes were the same length. Why would you need shims?

[JPG]

The shims are placed against the SIDES of the tubes. The tube clamp exerts outward pressure to the tubes. The final position is determined by a small boss extending out from the outer interior surface of the end casting. The shims essentially make that boss longer. The shims are necessary since his greenie end castings have a boss 1/16" shorter than current production. The end result is the same c-c spacing. Key word there is CENTER.

[DLB]

The shims are placed against the SIDES of the tubes. The tube clamp exerts outward pressure to the tubes. The final position is determined by a small boss extending out from the outer interior surface of the end casting. The shims essentially make that boss longer. The shims are necessary since his greenie end castings have a boss 1/16" shorter than current production. The end result is the same c-c spacing. Key word there is CENTER.

IIUC he is going to use new bench tubes and new castings on both ends (DT bases). Should not need shims for that.(?) I thought you were talking about something else.

- David

[JPG]

I be guilty of overlooking that obvious detail! ;>{