New Owner

[OlympicFail]

Purchased over the weekend

Good afternoon everybody, I found this unit for sale on FB marketplace for $200. It’s about 1.5 hours north of my house. I was up to look at it over the weekend and make sure I wanted to buy it. Seems to me it still works. The motor turns on, the speed control dial works and while the motor is running I could speed up/down. Some light rust on the rails, a small leak from the quill, and needs a deep clean but otherwise seems to be in ok shape. I plan to pick it up and take it home this coming weekend. Serial numbers points me to early 1955.
The accessories in the pic are everything that comes with it. I’m missing some of the lathe equipment but not sure what else. Is there anything you can see right away that I’m missing? These are the pics I took myself but there were some on the FB post I didn’t grab before the listing went away. The seller inherited the building this unit has been sitting in for years. From what the seller said, I don’t think it’s been used since the early 2000s. At a minimum it looks like the headstock needs a new seal kit.

My coworker turned me on to the SS and this will be my first step into the fun. What do you guys think? I think I scooped this machine, provided it works.

I’m slowly working my way through the forums and learning too much to remember the first time around.

Most of my pictures are just over the 3Mb size so for now I’ll only post a few of them.

[edma194]

Is there a fence? I see chuck keys but no chuck. Did you get saw guards?

[chapmanruss]

Serial number 288846 was made in January 1955. It is an "A" Headstock which, unless modified, doesn't have the removable rear logo plate to access the Idler Shaft Sheeve and back of the Speed Control Assembly for lubrication. It's the main downside of the "A" Headstock itself. Unless upgraded this 1955 Mark 5 will have the Gilmer Drive as opposed to the current (changed in the 1961) Poly V Drive. It would have the 3/4 HP motor which was standard at that time as opposed to the 1-1/8 HP motor they changed to in the early 1960's. I mention these things because it does present some challenges when restoring these Mark 5 "Greenies" from the 1950's to a good working tool. This is not to say it can't be done. I have restored 2 Mark 5 Greenies (a 1956 & a 1957) to like new condition.

I'm not sure what you mean by,

a small leak from the quill,

or

At a minimum it looks like the headstock needs a new seal kit.

Could "a small leak from the Quill" be the bearing loosing some kind of lubrication? Maybe someone sprayed lubricant on the bearing to make it turn better but that is a temporary "fix" only. The need for "a new seal kit" has me puzzled by what you mean.

The Headstock likely needs some TLC and maybe new bearings in the Drive Sleeve Assembly and Quill, especially if they are the original ones. The same may be true for the Idler Shaft Bearing.

From the picture it does have some of the accessories it came with from the factory originally but some are missing like the Fence and Drill Chuck Ed mentioned. Early Shopsmith Mark 5's did not come with Saw Blade Guards but were an option to purchase separately. Many additional accessories were available, and still are, to be able to do more with it.

The link below is to a topic I started titled Shopsmith Mark 5 What When and Where in the community section you might find interesting. It covers a lot about the beginnings of the Mark 5 and changes made to them over the years.

viewtopic.php?t=24963

[chapmanruss]

OlympicFail,

I hope I haven't discouraged you about your Shopsmith purchase. Some of yesterday's comments I made are for future readers of this topic to help them better understand what to look for when considering buying a Shopsmith Mark 5/V. The link below is to a PDF from Shopsmith titled Buying a used Shopsmith which helps potential new owners understand what to look for and look out for when buying a used Shopsmith tool. It includes a quick explanation of what makes up a Shopsmith Mark 5/V.

https://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arc ... rk%20V.pdf

There are some grammatical errors in the text. Some descriptions may be confusing and there are some errors such as under Sawing Accessories which states the upper and lower Saw Guards are a standard accessory but as I explained in my previous post that is not true for early Mark 5's. When they talk about the early Mark 5 or Mark V 500 having only one Trunnion that is not exactly correct, it should say only one locking Trunnion while other models (510/505 and 520) have front and rear locking Trunnions.

I have enjoyed Restoring the many Shopsmith tools I have done as much as I enjoy using them. I hope you will enjoy doing the same for yours be it a full restoration to a like new state or making it a well running tool and either way enjoying using it. Feel free to ask question about anything you are unsure of or simply wonder about. When starting out I found the members here very knowledgeable and helpful from which I learned a lot about Shopsmith Tools. Posting here is my way of paying that forward.

When you go to pick it up this weekend have a look around in the building it was stored in to see if you can spot any parts that looks like they may go to the Shopsmith. The seller should not have a problem including any found parts or accessories. The Saw Blade Guard, if it was purchased, that goes to the early Mark 5 is the one shown below.

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There are later versions of the Saw Blade Guard sets that will fit earlier Mark 5's. For all of them the Lower Guard clamps around the end of the Quill.

Boxes that look similar to the one below having the Magna or Shopsmith logo.

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It should have a Lathe Drive Center and a Tailstock Lathe Dead Center with a #2 Morse Taper (common) and just about anything with a 5/8" bore that can attach to the Quill's Spindle such as the Drill Chuck.

[OlympicFail]

My apologies for the delay. Busy busy as always. I finally got around to resizing the rest of the photos and added them to this chat. Thank you for the update Chapmanruss. Your first post did not deter me in the least. I've been working with my hands since my teen years. I'm just as excited to rebuild this SS as I am to use it. I've read, what amounts to the tip of the ice burg, a number of the stickys on here and I'm still processing my way through those. It gets a little muddy when talking about refurbishing parts since the are so close but just different enough to make a difference.

I plan to tear the whole assembly apart and at a minimum clean and repaint everything, factory colors if possible. Aside from the headstock, the frame and rails look like it just needs some TLC. When it comes to the HS I'm debating updating the guts to the Poly V. The Gilmer seems a fair bit less forgiving. I've seen the Poly is the preference but what would I be missing out on if I keep the Gilmer? I'm pretty sure I've got the tools to be able to tear that thing apart but my concern is the cost. First and foremost I want the tool to be in good running condition. Keeping it original is nice and I plan to do so as much as possible but ultimately functionality is going to win. The smaller motor size isn't as important. I tend to work low and slow anyway, one of the perks of being a hobbyist.

On the topic of the back view port thingy, is there anything preventing me from drilling a hole and 3d printing a dust cap? Can the 'A' headstocks be modified that way?

My comment about needing a seal kit mostly comes from my other mechanical hobbies. Most mechanical things have some sort of seal to keep insides in and outsides out. Since that first post, I've read enough to know there shouldn't be anything in the head that would leak. I'll know more once I get it home. Is it possible to buy a bearing kit that includes bearings, belts, seals, other accoutrements I need. I do plan to update the quill to the two bearing setup.

There is a fence, I do have the table, there are chucks, as far as I can tell all I need are the small lathe parts. I have the back mounting bracket thing that the tailstock fits into. I asked the seller if he had seen any of the other lathe pieces and he said he will look as he continued to clean out the building. If that equipment is not found, are their upgrades to the lathe? This is the function I'm most interested in and don't mind upgrading to better aftermarket parts. I do REALLY want a bandsaw but I can wait to pick that part up.

Are there any specific tools I will want to bring on Saturday? I've seen reference to a long handled Allan wrench. I'm assuming all bolts and connectors are imperial measurements?

[edma194]

Are there any specific tools I will want to bring on Saturday? I've seen reference to a long handled Allan wrench. I'm assuming all bolts and connectors are imperial measurements?

The only tools you should need are pliers and a screwdriver to remove the legs. 5 screws hold each leg to the base castings at the ends of the tubes. They usually have square head bolts on the old ones but not always so I just use pliers on them. Remove the table and you should have no trouble placing the whole tube and headstock assembly in your vehicle. See more detailed instructions here: viewtopic.php?p=313744#p313744

A Gilmer belt will work fine. If you need a new quill it might be a reason to upgrade the drive assembly to Poly-V.

I recommend drilling a hole in the back of the headstock. Horizontal boring mode with a bi-metal hole saw would work great, if you had another Shopsmith I suggest drilling a circle of small holes carefully then file it round. The exact size isn't important. But having a hole there is very useful for routine lubrication and cleaning, plus replacement of any speed dial parts. Your machine might be so old you don't have lubrication holes on the shafts for the split sheaves. If not just apply lube to the shaft and work the sheaves in and out to spread it around.

My first Shopsmith was a used 1954 greenie. I gave that to someone else after I obtained a newer 510 model, but later purchased an even older beat up old greenie that I turned into a dedicated drill press then upgraded the motor and speed control to a PowerPro. Almost all parts for Model 500/510/520/420, Mark 4, and Mark 7 are interchangeable so you can find or new parts for your machine, and upgrade it all the way to a top of the line Mark 7. Measure the bench tubes (lower tubes) on yours, the oldest ones used tubes with a 1-7/8" diameter instead of 1-3/4" used for all way tubes and later bench tubes. Even if you have to replace them I think 1-3/4" tubes will work just as well.

[chapmanruss]

Adding the access hole behind the logo plate on the back side of the Headstock can be done by marking the hole diameter and drilling holes around the diameter leaving a spot for the logo covers pins as seen below on the "B" Headstock in the picture. This is the same spot that the pins of the "A" Headstock cover go through. Filing can then round out the rest of the hole. The hole itself is slightly smaller in diameter than the cover.

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Doing it this way you can get a logo cover from a "B" Headstock to replace the one you have. The only difference between the "A" and "B" Headstock cover is the addition of the retaining clip on the "B" cover that snaps it in place.

As for painting it the finish is a hammered finish paint. Rust-oleum Verde Green has been a popular replacement for the original green color but was discontinued by Rust-oleum a couple years ago. There have been rumors that they were bringing it back. Verde Green is not an exact match and a little bluish than the original green color. Rust-oleum Hammered Finish Silver will match the silver painted parts. The Way (upper) Tubes are polished metal and the Bench (lower) tubes were painted plain silver. Shopsmith sells a Dark Green Spray Paint (12 oz) PART #522843, but it is not a hammered finish. You could choose to use it and try Rust-oleum's Hammered Finish clear coat. I haven't tried that yet so I don't know how well it would work so test it first.

There is some oil stains coming down the Headstock from the Quill but not a leak from the Quill.

You asked about the Gilmer Drive and if you would be missing out on anything if you upgraded to the Poly V Drive. Functionally the answer is no but it would no longer be original. There is a reason they changed to the Poly V Drive system. Early Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assemblies did not have a clutch and tended to break belts. A clutched Gilmer Drive Sleeve Assembly was added to help prevent this but the Poly V Drive is better. Since you want to change to a Double Bearing Quill upgrading to the Poly V Drive at the same time would be the best way to go. Changing a Gilmer Drive Quill to two bearings has been done but would require some machining. A cost that could better be used to upgrade to the Poly V Drive. The Quills of the Gilmer Drive and Poly V Drive have a different number of Splines and are not interchangeable. To change to the Poly V Drive you would need a Quill (you said you wanted a double bearing one) Drive Sleeve Assembly and Idler Shaft Assembly Poly V Sheave along with a Poly V belt.

[Real1shepperd]

Russ, it seems that some old paint finishes were 'hammered' and some were 'crinkled'. There does appear to be a difference upon examining the two side by side. I'm no expert on paint finishes for sure. In fact, I detest any sort of repainting I'm required to do. Hammered paints are way easier to find than crinkled-type paints.

Kevin

[chapmanruss]

It was the first Gray painted Mark 5's in the 1960's that had the crinkle finished paint. I have a Bandsaw from the 1960's made by Magna American Corporation with the Gray crinkle finish paint although it has been repainted once by a previous owner, so it has lost some of that crinkle texture. It was the Greenies and the Goldies that had the hammered finish paint.

[OlympicFail]

I was able to bring it home Saturday morning and was happy and a little surprised at how good of condition this unit is in. Some more back story, the seller is the son in law to the original purchaser. The seller never saw the owner use the tool and it sat in a climate controlled shop on sealed concrete. I took the headstock off the rails and the feet off the rail assembly. I have yet to find a rusty bolt or anything seized in place. The collar set screws on the drive shaft were tight but I was able to break them open with just hand pressure. I got it home, partially put back together, and took off the back dust cover. Apart from the grinding wheel dust it looks fantastic. The belts seem to be in good shape and they don't appear to be cracked. Once I get the guts pulled out I'll determine if the bearings need any work. If I need to replace any, is there a preferred place to purchase new ones? Did I read correctly that the Shopsmith website does not sell parts (specifically bearings) for the old machines, just the new revisions? If my quill is in good working condition I won't plan to update or upgrade anything at this point.

I do plan to strip the entire unit down, wash, paint, and seal all of the surfaces minus the top rails of course. Is the housing safe to sandblast or is it pretty soft? I've drooled over too many of the pictures in the "rebuilt" forum. I'm curious to know if I can grind down the casting seam in the headstock? I cast metal as a hobby and that seam drives me nuts. Edma, knocking out an access hole in the back of case is going to be cake and I'm not too stressed about that anymore. I was concerned there may have been a reason it would have been more difficult than it is. I was worried the casting would have a rib or something in the space where the hole is going to be. I do have a full sized drill press so actually drilling the hole is nearly a non issue.

I'm still thinking of paint options but looks like I can get a fairly generic Mint Green in a shaker can and a good clear coat over the top of that.

Thank you everybody for reading my ramblings. I learn better with Q and A than I do watching videos. I think I've about got my head wrapped around this tool and I'm super excited to get it up and running again.

Apart from not turning speed control, is there anything else that is a BIG NO NO I should be aware of?

I just noticed some of my pictures rotated when I uploaded them. I'll see if I can get around to adjusting those.