3D printed axial cyclone for dust separation

[RFGuy]

Okay, should be a non-controversial post here, but watch fellow forum members prove me wrong. From an engineering standpoint, I have always been intrigued by the horizontal style cyclone dust separators that Harvey sells. Not so intrigued that I would spend over $3k on one, but I like the easy dust bin dumping they offer and the form factor (really aspect ratio) looks like a possible advantage for some shop layouts. Of course, the Harvey units are monsters and overkill for my small shop. The guy over at Pilson Guitars YT channel did a build series where he attempted to replicate the Harvey GyroAir internals by 3D printing, i.e. making a horizontal oriented cyclone. He does a good job of explaining his thought process and attempting to measure the collection efficiency of his creation. It is a multi-part YT video series, so you have to be patient to see how it all turns out in the end, but worth your time if you have ever thought about making your own cyclone from scratch like I have. Part of the fun of this series, is he incorporated some of the feedback from his viewers into his revised design - not afraid to rip it apart and try again. Sometimes those changes helped, other times they didn't, but I applaud him for listening to his viewers and trying to include their feedback on this build series. He has also included all of his build files for anyone that wants to attempt it themselves. I have watched just about every vertically oriented cyclone build video on YT in the past, but I have to say this horizontal design looks like the easiest one to construct for a home hobbyist standpoint, provided you have a 3D printer. Might finally be the impetus for me to get a 3D printer now and experiment with this...

[BuckeyeDennis]

I'll try to watch those videos this evening -- they look interesting.

But in the meantime, this general subject was brought up almost 10 years ago, by a guy who wanted to mount a cyclone sideways in the dust-collection compartment of an old Mark VII. Per his request, I tested my ordinary Dust Deputy cyclone laid on it's side. To the suprise of almost everyone, it worked just fine.

More details and photos are in this post.

[edma194]

I'll try to watch those videos this evening -- they look interesting.

But in the meantime, this general subject was brought up almost 10 years ago, by a guy who wanted to mount a cyclone sideways in the dust-collection compartment of an old Mark VII. Per his request, I tested my ordinary Dust Deputy cyclone laid on it's side. To the suprise of almost everyone, it worked just fine.

More details and photos are in this post.

This is incredibly interesting. It makes sense. The vorticies shouldn't be all that affected by the horizontal orientation. I have to over-think some changes to my dust collection system now.

[RFGuy]

Dennis,

Definitely an interesting result and thanks for sharing. The downside, as I see it, with the horizontal Dust Deputy is the egress of sawdust is convoluted. The axial style or horizontal cyclone like the GyroAir has a dust collection port on the bottom of the separator making for simple collection and emptying. I am not sure there would be any benefit for a rotated Dust Deputy, but if someone can think of one let me know. Definitely an interesting experiment though.

[edma194]

I am not sure there would be any benefit for a rotated Dust Deputy, but if someone can think of one let me know. Definitely an interesting experiment though.

This could eliminate several changes in direction in the piping for my system, eliminate almost all the flex pipe used, and make disconnecting the Dust Deputy to empty the container much easier.

[SteveMaryland]

I do my work outdoors, but I have no doubt that a "really good" dust collection system is a must for anyone doing power woodwork within a residence, for reasons of housekeeping, health, and domestic tranquility as well.

Seems like most of the problem is getting that last 1 percent. I guess a final HEPA filter will do it but expensive and impedes air flow. And apparently exhausting that last one percent outside is impractical for house heat conservation or whatever reason.

On the "Rainbow" brand of vacuum cleaners, water mist particulate interception has been used. I have no hands-on with Rainbow vacuums but I have heard people rave about them and I can see how they work so well - "wet dust can't fly" is the Rainbow slogan.

Anybody heard of water mist being implemented and working well in a woodwork vac system? Or even just wetting the final filter bag? Or percolating the exhaust through water - like a hookah? Just thinking out loud here...

[edma194]

I guess a final HEPA filter will do it but expensive and impedes air flow. And apparently exhausting that last one percent outside is impractical for house heat conservation or whatever reason.

A HEPA filter doesn't block the finest and most dangerous dust. To finish my system I have to stop using filter bags and run a pipe out the side of my house. The heat loss will be inconsequential for the amount of time I'll have it running.

On the "Rainbow" brand of vacuum cleaners, water mist particulate interception has been used. I have no hands-on with Rainbow vacuums but I have heard people rave about them and I can see how they work so well - "wet dust can't fly" is the Rainbow slogan.

Anybody heard of water mist being implemented and working well in a woodwork vac system?

My mother had a Rainbow vacuum. It was very good at filtering dust, highly recommended by allergists. The relatively small water chamber needs frequent cleaning with ordinary household dust. I think the volume of sawdust normally produced in woodworking would be muc greater than what you pick up from vacuuming the living room floor, and highly absorbent too so it would turn the filter water into sludge quickly.

I think water misting is used for static control, but not filtering that I've heard of. I do wonder if a water filter could be used when grinding and cutting metal to prevent explosions.

[RFGuy]

Seems like most of the problem is getting that last 1 percent. I guess a final HEPA filter will do it but expensive and impedes air flow. And apparently exhausting that last one percent outside is impractical for house heat conservation or whatever reason.

Steve,

Yeah, HEPA filters are generally considered the best solution in dust collectors for woodworking. A good HEPA will remove most particulates down to 0.3µm (for example 99.97% capture at 0.3µm). Since sawdust consists of particulates at 30µm and below and because the more dangerous particle size for lung health is anything under 5µm, HEPA filters do a good job of protecting your lungs (<5µm particles go the deepest in lungs). However, this only applies if you can get high collection efficiency at the tool itself and not all woodworking machines are created equal in this regard unfortunately. Also, some operations are just inherently dusty and difficult to contain like sanding for example. It is for this reason, that secondary air cleaning is often needed to protect your health in doing woodworking in ANY shop. I say the latter, because I know of a few people, pro woodworkers, who have had to either curtail or stop woodworking entirely due to health issues directly related to woodworking. Many don't take dust collection seriously in this hobby until they already have serious allergy and/or other health issues. I'll get off my soapbox now, but if interested below are some light reading on the subject.

P.S. The cyclone is really a must have for dust collectors that use HEPA filtration as they minimize clogging of that expensive HEPA filter by collecting as much particulate as they can before exhausting out the HEPA.

https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclo ... corner.php

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Air ... x#_ENREF_1

https://www.yahoo.com/news/startling-da ... 00442.html

[algale]

I'll try to watch those videos this evening -- they look interesting.

But in the meantime, this general subject was brought up almost 10 years ago, by a guy who wanted to mount a cyclone sideways in the dust-collection compartment of an old Mark VII. Per his request, I tested my ordinary Dust Deputy cyclone laid on it's side. To the suprise of almost everyone, it worked just fine.

More details and photos are in this post.

Mine fell over once and kept working.

[BuckeyeDennis]

I finally watched all three of those axial-cyclone videos, and the guy is a pretty entertaining presenter. I have a 3D printer, and have used it a lot. But the novelty has worn off, and I wouldn't be excited about printing for hundreds of hours to build those twin cyclones!

The videos did get me curious about axial cyclones in general, however. I recalled seeing a fairly inexpensive one from Jet, and looked it up on Amazon. The reviews there were less than stellar. Some users say that it's not very efficient on fine dust. And many report that its vanes get clogged with large or stringy chips. Which probably explains the two-stage, two-bucket Harvey design. I presume that the purpose of that diamond-shaped structure near the inlet is to divert the big stuff into the first bucket, before it ever reaches the vanes.

By way of comparison, the Oneida Super Dust Deputy cyclone does have stellar ratings on Amazon. My experience with its little brother has been great, and there's only one bucket to mess with.

When I finally get around to designing and building a permanent fixed-plumbing installation for my 2HP dust collector, I'm going to take a hard look at integrating a Super Dust Deputy. Maybe sideways, with a big 90 degree elbow on the dust outlet, if it packages better that way.