PowerPro Headstock DIY Upgrade

[RFGuy]

I can't disagree with your solution. My headstock with the earlier toggle switch has detents on the ring which hang up on the little tension spring that prevents the ring from rattling. The headstock with the red switch doesn't have this problem.

The Quoted part of RF Guy's post caught my attention. I believe he is correct on life expectations. We as a consumer should not expect the PowerPro to age like the mechanical headstocks. Adding electronics has surely improved usability and performance, but at the same time has shortened life expectancy. Any purchaser of this technology should not expect 20 years or more of peak performance from a PowerPro. Life expectancy would include the number of hours used, not necessarily the age in years. The same would apply to any Shopsmith with the mechanical controls.

Thanks. Yeah, I didn't know it was different on the mechanical speed control versus headstock generation for the speed control quadrant issue/repair. I have the Mark V headstock with the red power switch. Having worked in the consumer electronics business for a couple of decades, the quoted portion you have for me is correct/accurate and an informed opinion from someone who has designed circuits on silicon one transistor at a time. The customers who used my creations were rarely concerned with product longevity and durability. Some exceptions, of course, are medical electronics, space based HW and very specific automotive electronics. Everything else is considered disposable with a short intended product life, or at least this is the case for most of consumer electronics. There is often a "prosumer" or full professional market in niche product categories where highest performance and longevity go hand and hand, but not the norm. I would think of a PowerPro headstock like a modern refrigerator. Both cost about $3k today, both have too much electronics in them. Both have an LCD display. Both have parts that with the right expertise or repair person can be fixed/replaced, but the parts cost a small fortune and the experience will cost you down time while it is being repaired. Unlike your Mark V/7, your refrigerator doesn't have an easy option for an alternative headstock to swap to keep it running and your ice cream from melting while you wait.

[edma194]

From time to time I have found the Gen 1 PowerPro headstock for sale on eBay. I think the low end price was around $1400 for a circa 2015 mfg date. I hesitated due to reliability questions I had after reading of overheating issues, issues with the electronics, etc. Would it be a correct assumption on my part that the upgrade from a Gen 1 to Gen 2 would take care of these issues? That is if I had a problem. Was there any real issues with the PP motors? The 557003 PowerPro Gen 1 to PowerPro Gen 2 Upgrade Was $419.00 - Now $394.00. It seems the risk / reward tilts a little bit in my favor by going this route.

I don't know of any problems fixed by the Gen 2 upgrade other than sawdust affecting a sensor in the motor. I found a lightly used 520 with lift assist and PowerPro headstock but no table system or other accessories at a very low price. I knew the PowerPro would power up and turn, found the problem with when the 12" sanding disk was mounted, but otherwise it operated without problems with smaller accessories mount so it's now in use on my drill press.

I took a chance that the rest of the machine was worth the money, and it turned out in my favor. I don't know of any fixes in the Gen 2 version except for shielding a motor sensor from dust. The problems seem to be primarily in the power supply. I think any motor problems would occur quickly and be covered under warranty. Motors can probably be repaired. The electronics in the power supply are likely not easily repaired, and I don't know why it costs so much except for the low production volume.

These problems are a good reason to buy a complete headstock if you want to upgrade to a PowerPro. If you have problems with it you'll have your old headstock available to use if it doesn't work.

[gac5ss]

I can't disagree with your solution. My headstock with the earlier toggle switch has detents on the ring which hang up on the little tension spring that prevents the ring from rattling. The headstock with the red switch doesn't have this problem.

Thanks. Yeah, I didn't know it was different on the mechanical speed control versus headstock generation for the speed control quadrant issue/repair. I have the Mark V headstock with the red power switch.

[/quote]

I have been putting off installing a replacement Drive Sleeve Assembly because of the high temps. This is the older headstock with the speed changing ring with the detents. May need to change out these parts. This headstock also has the single bearing quill.

As an aside, every time I work on the speed changer, which is every time I open her up, my knuckles and wrists come out scratched and bruised. So when it doesn't turn easy when changing the speed (while running of course), I'm a little irritated. This is one advantage of push button technology.

[gac5ss]

From time to time I have found the Gen 1 PowerPro headstock for sale on eBay. I think the low end price was around $1400 for a circa 2015 mfg date. I hesitated due to reliability questions I had after reading of overheating issues, issues with the electronics, etc. Would it be a correct assumption on my part that the upgrade from a Gen 1 to Gen 2 would take care of these issues? That is if I had a problem. Was there any real issues with the PP motors? The 557003 PowerPro Gen 1 to PowerPro Gen 2 Upgrade Was $419.00 - Now $394.00. It seems the risk / reward tilts a little bit in my favor by going this route.

I don't know of any problems fixed by the Gen 2 upgrade other than sawdust affecting a sensor in the motor. I found a lightly used 520 with lift assist and PowerPro headstock but no table system or other accessories at a very low price. I knew the PowerPro would power up and turn, found the problem with when the 12" sanding disk was mounted, but otherwise it operated without problems with smaller accessories mount so it's now in use on my drill press.

I took a chance that the rest of the machine was worth the money, and it turned out in my favor. I don't know of any fixes in the Gen 2 version except for shielding a motor sensor from dust. The problems seem to be primarily in the power supply. I think any motor problems would occur quickly and be covered under warranty. Motors can probably be repaired. The electronics in the power supply are likely not easily repaired, and I don't know why it costs so much except for the low production volume.

These problems are a good reason to buy a complete headstock if you want to upgrade to a PowerPro. If you have problems with it you'll have your old headstock available to use if it doesn't work.

Thanks for the information. Wasn't aware that all of the design issues may not be fixed on the Gen 1 by installing a Gen 2 upgrade kit. Apparently there are issues with Gen 1 that only a completely new Gen 2 headstock will fix. So my plan to upgrade a Gen 1 to a Gen 2 if trouble arises is not a great plan.

[edma194]

From time to time I have found the Gen 1 PowerPro headstock for sale on eBay. I think the low end price was around $1400 for a circa 2015 mfg date. I hesitated due to reliability questions I had after reading of overheating issues, issues with the electronics, etc. Would it be a correct assumption on my part that the upgrade from a Gen 1 to Gen 2 would take care of these issues? That is if I had a problem. Was there any real issues with the PP motors? The 557003 PowerPro Gen 1 to PowerPro Gen 2 Upgrade Was $419.00 - Now $394.00. It seems the risk / reward tilts a little bit in my favor by going this route.

Thanks for the information. Wasn't aware that all of the design issues may not be fixed on the Gen 1 by installing a Gen 2 upgrade kit. Apparently there are issues with Gen 1 that only a completely new Gen 2 headstock will fix. So my plan to upgrade a Gen 1 to a Gen 2 if trouble arises is not a great plan.

I would avoid buying a used PowerPro unless it's local, and much less than $1400. If you can try it out you can make an offer on what you see. Otherwise it's not worth the cost of shipping for anyone besides Shopsmith to provide a guarantee that you can rely on. I didn't do my upgrade for years after I received the kit and am very relieved that I ended up with a good one. Even if the second one I bought used had a serious problem in one of it's components I'd at least have some spare parts.

I think the best deal currently is a new PowerPro headstock. You'll have a guarantee, no risk of kit installation problems, you can start using it right away to look for any problems it might have, and you'll have a backup headstock to use if there are problems.

I have some questions about what is available right now. Can you get a headstock with a Gen 2 control panel? How about the new style motor mounts? Are those going to change the price of headstocks?

ETA: Answering part of my questions, a PowerPro Gen 2 headstock is available for $2595. Parts list price for the Gen 1 was $2419. Not sure if you can get a Gen 1 headstock or control panel anymore. Don't know if anything was resolved about new motor mounts.

[ssuel]

I bought a new PowerPro back in about 2012. The electronics failed about a month before warranty expired. Not sure what ShopSmith fixed. About a year later, the display failed. I replaced it, and late last year the 2012 PowerPro died. I got my 1985 mechanical headstock out of storage, did a deep clean and lubricanted it and it runs pretty well. I bought a conventional table saw and will use the ShopSmith for other functions. Based on my experience, I would not buy a PowerPro, electronics are the weak link for me. Just my 2 cents

[roy_okc]

I personally hate the table saw function on my 500 for anything larger than a few inches and especially any that requires tilting the table, not quite as bad on my 510 but still not a fan, also had a BT3000 and have a barely used Rigid JSS. Not long after buying the Rigid, I ran across a deal too good to pass up on a few months old 36" 240V Sawstop PCS. The cut quality is a bit better (Forest blades on both the 510 and PCS), it has plenty of power to rip or crosscut full 8/4 walnut in a single pass without even thinking about bogging down, it feels safer and not just because of the detection technology, it's easy to get the blade to the exact height and tilt, it's rock solid, the miter slot is standard size so I have the option to use a huge variety of slot accessories, and I can use magnetic jigs on it. I've since added a cast iron router table wing and router to it. I expect this will be my last table saw.

I still have both the 500 and 510 and will keep one or both for the foreseeable future for the other things they can do (I recently used horizontal boring to drill holes in the ends of several 8' 2x4s, no idea what a dedicated horizontal boring machine costs).

I considered the PowerPro upgrade some years ago, but glad that I ultimately decided to stick with the original.

[gac5ss]

I bought a new PowerPro back in about 2012. The electronics failed about a month before warranty expired. Not sure what ShopSmith fixed. About a year later, the display failed. I replaced it, and late last year the 2012 PowerPro died. I got my 1985 mechanical headstock out of storage, did a deep clean and lubricanted it and it runs pretty well. I bought a conventional table saw and will use the ShopSmith for other functions. Based on my experience, I would not buy a PowerPro, electronics are the weak link for me. Just my 2 cents

I personally hate the table saw function on my 500 for anything larger than a few inches and especially any that requires tilting the table, not quite as bad on my 510 but still not a fan, also had a BT3000 and have a barely used Rigid JSS. Not long after buying the Rigid, I ran across a deal too good to pass up on a few months old 36" 240V Sawstop PCS. The cut quality is a bit better (Forest blades on both the 510 and PCS), it has plenty of power to rip or crosscut full 8/4 walnut in a single pass without even thinking about bogging down, it feels safer and not just because of the detection technology, it's easy to get the blade to the exact height and tilt, it's rock solid, the miter slot is standard size so I have the option to use a huge variety of slot accessories, and I can use magnetic jigs on it. I've since added a cast iron router table wing and router to it. I expect this will be my last table saw.

I still have both the 500 and 510 and will keep one or both for the foreseeable future for the other things they can do (I recently used horizontal boring to drill holes in the ends of several 8' 2x4s, no idea what a dedicated horizontal boring machine costs).

I considered the PowerPro upgrade some years ago, but glad that I ultimately decided to stick with the original.

Thanks for all of your perspectives. Again I am coming to a conclusion to make my Shopsmiths to work as smoothly and efficiently as designed. I have a speed increaser for under table shaper work and my last purchase of the 500 brought all manner of accessories and SPT's. Now to get the speed control working as intended. I also have the tube base to make it a user modified double tilt. If I am going to layout $2500 plus, it is going to be a 3HP cabinet saw, and probably a SawStop. But since I no longer woodwork professional, I don't really need one.

I do have a just rebuilt Kremin Airmix sprayer with 10-14 pump. Maybe I can find a buyer for it and get that SawStop. My equipment supplier told me a few weeks ago the Kremlins are going for about $4.5K new. I paid about $3K in 1998 for it.

[edma194]

I bought a new PowerPro back in about 2012. The electronics failed about a month before warranty expired. Not sure what ShopSmith fixed. About a year later, the display failed. I replaced it, and late last year the 2012 PowerPro died.

There are too many stories like this. Something that costs as much as it does should have a better track record. The stories of service haven't been good either, there are long wait times, high replacement parts cost, fixing one problem and then finding another, and a general lack of knowledge within the company about the single sourced 3rd party components.

[edma194]

I have a speed increaser for under table shaper work and my last purchase of the 500 brought all manner of accessories and SPT's. Now to get the speed control working as intended. I also have the tube base to make it a user modified double tilt.

With the speed increaser you get all the benefits of undertable table routing that the PowerPro would provide. You may not need the double-tilt for anything else. The double-tilt is a problem if you want to keep an SPT mounted on the left side like a bandsaw. It has to be removed just to tilt up into drill press mode. If you really want to there are instructions on the forum for modifying motors to be reversible. There's not much more capability available in a PowerPro. You could go buy a lot of expensive Woodpecker and Festool stuff with the money you'd spend on one.