Dust Collection - I can't breathe!!

[JPG]

I use the DC-3300, would call it good not great. SS claims higher CFMs for it with relatively inexpensive filter/hood upgrades, improved to 1 micron and 695 - 890 CFM with 42 inch hood for $95. I'd like to know if any users agree with those claims. I'd like a better system, but realistically if I spend $2500 or $3K in my shop I'm going to choose tools that make dust every time. But $95 I can handle.

I recall a thread in which a couple of forum members were using inexpensive air quality monitors in their shops, but I don't recall exactly who was involved and what type equipment they were evaluating, and I can't readily locate the thread. Maybe this is enough to fire someone's memory and they can provide a link. Not likely a PM2200, but possibly enlightening due to objective observations.

Related grumbling: I looked at two retailer websites for PM2200 specs and neither one shared whether the 3HP motor was 220V or 3-Phase or ???. I'm not in the market, but if I was this would be kind of a big deal.

- David

Likely 230V single phase.

[JPG]

Yep. PM says so.

Forum(or whatever) cannot upload jpg files this AM???? Thinks they are empty?????

Powermatic.com.....

[DLB]

Questions for JPG, cuz I think you know: Residential 220 - 240 is two phases. Will all/most "230 1 Phase" AC Motors run on residential 220/240? Is there really a difference in either the power or the motor? Am I just confusing two different terms for the same thing or is 230 1 Phase something that really exists? 1 Phase, or single phase, to me means one hot and one neutral and would be distinguished from two hots out of phase with each other and no neutral. Does this make sense?

[RFGuy]

Here are a couple of links to prior threads to answer some of the questions raised here on this thread. Dust collection does tend to be one of those topics that tends to become very polarizing, so take the following comments with a grain of salt and please do your own research. A great resource is Bill Pentz website (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/). Personally, I find the DC3300 to be wanting (only filters down to 1um w/ tall filter hood and low CFM), so I stopped using mine and replaced it with a ShopVac™ and a ClearVue CV06 Mini cyclone. IMHO this is a great low cost option for someone like myself with a small shop who can't really afford the footprint of a big cyclone. I use HEPA bags and HEPA cartridge filters in it and I had to do some additional sealing of the ShopVac™ to get good results. However, if you can afford a large dust collector with cyclone AND can fit it in your shop, by all means go for it. The one negative (that I have read about) for short height cyclones like the Laguna dust collectors or the PowerMatic PM2200 is that the short height cone design of their cyclones results in lower cyclone efficiency. The end result is that you will have to clean out their filters more often as they clog faster than full height cyclone systems similar to the ClearVue CV1800 or Oneida Pro models. When I was researching this before, I found a few anecdotal stories from owners confirming this. Not trying to knock these shorter height cyclone options because they are really nice and compact units, but something to consider. If you can afford it, and have the shop space, the ClearVue CV1800 seems to be the best value for a high quality dust collector. Oneida also makes similar models to it, but are a bit more expensive. In the mid range (~$1k), I would consider buying the Harbor Freight dust collector and putting Wynn cartridge filters on it and an Oneida Super Dust Deputy cyclone in front of it. I hope this helps.

If you are looking for a dust particle count meter, see the last two links below and read the prior forum threads for more details about them.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/begi ... 22666.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/wood ... 23159.html

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DL ... UTF8&psc=1

http://www.dylosproducts.com/ornodcproair.html

In general, the smaller the dust particle, the more dangerous it is because the smaller it is, the deeper it gets in the lungs. Typically HEPA filters are spec'ed down to 0.3um because that is where their collection efficiency curve is the worst, so they spew more dust back into the room at this particle size (see link below). So, if you get a dust particle counter, keep this in mind. Dust collectors with a filter hood, like the DC3300, have to build up a layer of "cake" before they achieve their rated filter efficiency, but this comes with a corresponding loss of CFM. A good HEPA filter used in conjunction with a cyclone at the input has good filter efficiency for a much longer time before the filter needs to be cleaned in comparison.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/wha ... important/

Of course if cost is not a factor, there is the super high end like the Harvey Gyro Air G700 or higher models:

https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/gyro-airs

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHv-yO-kiTQ[/youtube]

[JPG]

Questions for JPG, cuz I think you know: Residential 220 - 240 is two phases. Will all/most "230 1 Phase" AC Motors run on residential 220/240? Is there really a difference in either the power or the motor? Am I just confusing two different terms for the same thing or is 230 1 Phase something that really exists? 1 Phase, or single phase, to me means one hot and one neutral and would be distinguished from two hots out of phase with each other and no neutral. Does this make sense?

1) Residential electrical power is overwhelmingly single phase.
2) The 115/230v is obtained by use of a center tapped transformer that is fed by a single phase source. When 3 transformers are mounted on a pole, the residential distribution is from only one of those transformers, hence single phase, The other two transformers are sourced from the other two phases.
3) A clue is that a residential drop only has three conductors. A three phase drop will typically have 4 or more conductors.

4) 1 phase 208v and 115v sources are derived from different transformer connections too either one phase or across two of the three phases. Now it has gotten messy!

5) 230v 1 phase has 115v each from neutral(center tap)to each of the two 'hots' which are 180° apart(opposite polarity). Still single phase , just opposite polarity.

6) 3 phase are 120° apart.

Nuf fer now!!! Any more gets into 'vector/trig' stuff.

[shoedo]

https://www.toolup.com/Powermatic-17922 ... eQEALw_wcB


FEATURES:
• Proprietary Auto-Cleaning HEPA Filter technology for better filtration and longer filter life
• HEPA Filter collects 99.97% of all particles passing through as small as 0.3 Micron
• Powerful 3 HP motor moves 1,543 Cubic Feet if air per Minute
• Integrated vacuum lines in the drum retain the bag without the need for a separate bag frame
• One-handed drum release allows for simple removal of the drum for bag changes
• Vacuum pressure gauge for greater user feedback

SPECIFICATIONS:
• Motor Voltage (V.): 230
• 3-Hoses Connection Diameter (In.): 4
• Impeller Diameter (In.): 15.8
• Recommended Circuit Size (Amps.): 30
• Motor Current (Amps): 16
• Static Pressure (WC): 14.13
• Number of Air Inlets: 1(8") or 3(4")
• 1-Hose Connection Diameter (In.): 8
• Motor Phase: 1
• Motor Power (HP): 3
• Sound Rating (DB): 78
• Velocity @ 8" (CFM): 4380
• Efficiency (Micron): 0.3
• Collection Bag Capacity (Cu. Ft.): 55
• Collection Bag Length (In.): 31-3/8
• Impeller Material: Steel


Introducing the Powermatic PM2200 Cyclonic Dust Collector with HEPA filtration. The PM2200 pairs the benefits of cyclonic dust collection with the time honored legacy of the Powermatic standard. The all-metal construction provides a stables base for quiet operation and minimal vibration. The Powermatic Cyclone is only cyclonic dust collector on the market with an Auto-Cleaning HEPA filter. The included HEPA filter traps 99.97% of all particles at 0.3 micron. With other market leading features such as a one-handed drum release lever, vacuum pressure gauge, and frameless dust bag vacuum retention, the Powermatic PM2200 Cyclone Dust Collector is an innovative addition to the Powermatic family.

[reible]

A couple of thoughts, first the closer and the faster you can capture the dust the better. Some tools do better with this then others. So in addition to looking at a dust collection system you also need to look at the tools you have and what you plan to buy. Sometimes additions of hoods or dust port options do a lot more for you then a new dust collector.

Most big dust collectors are designed so you can pipe your shop. If that is not going to happen then you are in the wrong market place. Dedicated shops this is a nice way to go but a garage shops that is also a parking place for cars, well then it get tricky.

Piping also sort of fixes were things are so if you want to redesign the shop you may well also need to redo the piping, so how well you do your planning and carry out the layout becomes a bit more complex.

Then there is the controversy about collection with smaller then 4" hoses. Some people say 3" but what ever, the large fast collectors don't do well with the hoses a lot of us use being 2-1/2". If you have most of your tools using this size hose then that is something to factor in. I have a drum sander that uses a 4" hose and that is about it. Everything else is smaller.

Keep in mind electrical usage, a large system uses up a few watts and you pay for that. Like wise if you need other then normal voltages you may end up paying to have that installed.

I'm not shopping for a system and at my age I don't for see me every getting a new system, but hey you never know. If I were shopping I would look at this system:

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collect ... l-features

Maybe it is one of the better ones you could get for a home shop but still pretty expensive so not for everyone. At this point if someone said I had to buy one this is likely the one I would get.

Ed

[RFGuy]

A couple of thoughts, first the closer and the faster you can capture the dust the better. Some tools do better with this then others. So in addition to looking at a dust collection system you also need to look at the tools you have and what you plan to buy. Sometimes additions of hoods or dust port options do a lot more for you then a new dust collector.

Most big dust collectors are designed so you can pipe your shop. If that is not going to happen then you are in the wrong market place. Dedicated shops this is a nice way to go but a garage shops that is also a parking place for cars, well then it get tricky.

Piping also sort of fixes were things are so if you want to redesign the shop you may well also need to redo the piping, so how well you do your planning and carry out the layout becomes a bit more complex.

Then there is the controversy about collection with smaller then 4" hoses. Some people say 3" but what ever, the large fast collectors don't do well with the hoses a lot of us use being 2-1/2". If you have most of your tools using this size hose then that is something to factor in. I have a drum sander that uses a 4" hose and that is about it. Everything else is smaller.

Keep in mind electrical usage, a large system uses up a few watts and you pay for that. Like wise if you need other then normal voltages you may end up paying to have that installed.

I'm not shopping for a system and at my age I don't for see me every getting a new system, but hey you never know. If I were shopping I would look at this system:

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collect ... l-features

Maybe it is one of the better ones you could get for a home shop but still pretty expensive so not for everyone. At this point if someone said I had to buy one this is likely the one I would get.

Ed

Thanks Ed. All very good points that you make. I too find the new Oneida Supercell to be intriguing. It is a great form factor for smaller shops, but I'd like to see how it holds up in the market a bit first. They use 3 smaller motors similar to a shop vacuum motor with plastic impellers. Of course, if these break, the replacement isn't too expensive (https://www.oneida-air.com/replacement- ... -motor-kit), but that is the only thing that gives me pause with their system. Still it looks very interesting.

[reible]

One other point that I had been thinking about ducting but forgot to add to my last post is this:

Don't forget to add the cost of ducting to your system if that is the way you plan to go. By the time you get all the hardware you need like blast gates and the like this will be a be a more then a few more dollars so add that sort of thing into your plans.

Speaking of planning you really need to do that before you buy anything, planning the whole system is a must so you have a better idea of total cost and if and where you have room to run ducts and hoses.

Ed

[reible]

Thanks Ed. All very good points that you make. I too find the new Oneida Supercell to be intriguing. It is a great form factor for smaller shops, but I'd like to see how it holds up in the market a bit first. They use 3 smaller motors similar to a shop vacuum motor with plastic impellers. Of course, if these break, the replacement isn't too expensive (https://www.oneida-air.com/replacement- ... -motor-kit), but that is the only thing that gives me pause with their system. Still it looks very interesting.

Yes anything new could have some problems that have yet to surface and so far as I know they are the only one addressing the market at this time. If their sales are go I can see other companies following suit.

Much of the information on dust collection is not quite as clear as it should be. You have people wanting you to buy systems which I see is clearly overkill and not all that much designed for home shops.

This is the reason I have started on a trek towards Festool. I have a couple of "chop" saw that cut fine but even after a new cuts I'm covered in saw dust and so is everything around me. The Kapex is not perfect but is so so much better then the other saws at collecting dust it amazes me. I was out working and a neighbor stopped by with a couple of pieces of wood he need cut. So I did it for him on the kapex. After I did the cut I realize I had on the sweatshirt that while nice and warm is a saw dust magnet. Looked down and nothing, not a chip to be found. I would have done that with one of my other saws and I would have spent 20 minutes cleaning the jacket up.

Ed