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14 posts 1 2

Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268546 by shoedo » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:32 pm

I studied the various photos of the arbors that were available at community-f7/identifying-shopsmith-arbors-t22629.html but I still don't feel comfortable identifying the 500 arbor versus those that are intended to be used with the 520 table. I even looked on Ebay but I can't confer veracity because I don't know the seller's experience with Shopsmith items. So, here I am at the mercy of the Shopsmith forum for answers. The Shopsmith site only shows the modle 500 arbor. Are the arbors pictured with the sawblade compatible with the 520 saw table?

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268553 by JPG » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:13 pm

I believe the 'magic' dimensions are:(face of blade/disk to end of arbor)
m5 /V 500 saw 1 1/4 steel sanding disk 1 1/4

MV 500+ saw 1 11/16 steel sanding disk 2". Saw maybe 1 23/32"

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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268567 by DLB » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:55 am

To help with understanding, the incompatibility is between blades/discs and the blade guard. The arbor length positions the blade correctly for the given guard system.

Sanding Disc - Unlike the early M5/MV, for 505/510/520/M7 the Sanding Disc can be used with a lower blade guard and operate through the table. The guard is not so much for safety as for a significant improvement in dust control. Speaking for myself, through table sanding with guard is the preferred use. IIUC, for any other use the discs are interchangeable. For sure, I can use a 520 sanding disc on my Greenie and it works just like any other sanding disc. And I can use a 500 disc on my 520 for sanding without the guard, but I don't.

Early M5s did not come with a blade guard, it was optional. I don't know when it became standard equipment, but I'm sure someone here does. Some, including mine, still do not have a blade guard. SS has offered retrofit blade guards for years but I think it was recently discontinued. So, IIUC I can use my 520 arbor on my Greenie and it is neither better nor worse than the 'correct' arbor. It would only be incompatible if I had the blade guard. (I never do that and I won't because the 520 is far superior as a saw.)

-David

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268569 by JPG » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:47 am

In addition to the guard interferences, there is the saw blade 'auto alignment' that the differing arbors provide. In sync with the carriage spacer, the saw blade arbor self positions the saw blade within the table slot when the carriage is pushed against the spacer tightly to the headstock.

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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268574 by chapmanruss » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:34 pm

It appears you have gone into Arbor overload. When the Mark V 510 and 505 were released they needed longer arbors for the saw blades and hubs for the sanding disk. When I mention 510 that includes the 505 as it is the same Table System without the floating tables. The Lower Blade Guard for the 510 and later the same one for the 520 and Mark 7 has a longer throat connecting it to the Quill. This lower guard is not to be confused with the 500 dust collection chute which is a stripped down version of the 510, 520 and M7 lower guard and can use steel Sanding Disks with the shorter hub. Now that we are on the Sanding Disk the short hub (1-1/4") is for the 500 or original table system. The longer hub (2-1/16") is for the 510, 520 and M7 tables. This longer hub Sanding Disk can be used with the Mark V 510, 520 & M7 lower blade guard for dust collection. The short hub Sanding Disk cannot be used in a complete 510, 520 & M7 lower blade guard.

As for arbors, only the 1-1/4" and 5/8" Saw Blade arbors differ for the table systems. There have been only three longer arbors specifically for the Mark V 510, 520 and M7. 555130 is for the 1-1/4" arbor hole SS blades and at first there was 555118 for 5/8 " arbor hole blades that was replaced by 555608 that was originally made for the Sawsmith Table Saw. 555118 looks like a longer version of the arbor 555321 for the 500 table. Below is a listing of those Saw Blade Arbors and their overall length.

505511 - Mark V 500 1-1/4" Saw Arbor - 1-5/8"
555130 - Mark V 510/520 1-1/4" Saw Arbor - 2"

555321 - Mark V 500 5/8" Saw Arbor - 2"
555118 - 5/8" Saw Arbor - 510 only - 2-1/4"
555608 - Mark V 510/520 5/8" Saw Arbor - 2-1/4"

I hope this clears it up some for you.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268578 by jsburger » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:41 pm

chapmanruss wrote:It appears you have gone into Arbor overload. When the Mark V 510 and 505 were released they needed longer arbors for the saw blades and hubs for the sanding disk. When I mention 510 that includes the 505 as it is the same Table System without the floating tables. The Lower Blade Guard for the 510 and later the same one for the 520 and Mark 7 has a longer throat connecting it to the Quill. This lower guard is not to be confused with the 500 dust collection chute which is a stripped down version of the 510, 520 and M7 lower guard and can use steel Sanding Disks with the shorter hub. Now that we are on the Sanding Disk the short hub (1-1/4") is for the 500 or original table system. The longer hub (2-1/16") is for the 510, 520 and M7 tables. This longer hub Sanding Disk can be used with the Mark V 510, 520 & M7 lower blade guard for dust collection. The short hub Sanding Disk cannot be used in a complete 510, 520 & M7 lower blade guard.

As for arbors, only the 1-1/4" and 5/8" Saw Blade arbors differ for the table systems. There have been only three longer arbors specifically for the Mark V 510, 520 and M7. 555130 is for the 1-1/4" arbor hole SS blades and at first there was 555118 for 5/8 " arbor hole blades that was replaced by 555608 that was originally made for the Sawsmith Table Saw. 555118 looks like a longer version of the arbor 555321 for the 500 table. Below is a listing of those Saw Blade Arbors and their overall length.

505511 - Mark V 500 1-1/4" Saw Arbor - 1-5/8"
555130 - Mark V 510/520 1-1/4" Saw Arbor - 2"

555321 - Mark V 500 5/8" Saw Arbor - 2"
555118 - 5/8" Saw Arbor - 510 only - 2-1/4"
555608 - Mark V 510/520 5/8" Saw Arbor - 2-1/4"


I hope this clears it up some for you.


Why is the 555118 arbor only for the 510 and the 555608 for the 510/520? The only difference between the 510 and 520 is the fence system. :confused:

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268586 by chapmanruss » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:25 pm

John asked,

Why is the 555118 arbor only for the 510 and the 555608 for the 510/520? The only difference between the 510 and 520 is the fence system.
It is a good question. It is the way it was listed since it was for the Mark V 510 but was discontinued and replaced by P/N 555608 before the 520 came out. It was also for the 505 but things didn't continue to be or never were listed for it for some reason. Maybe because it was discontinued but I do not know when. The Mark V 505 I have was made April 28, 2006. I guess everyone is supposed to know if they are looking for something for the Mark V 505 they need to get what is for the 510. Maybe at some point the catalog will no longer reference the 510 either.

---

Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268587 by jsburger » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:01 pm

chapmanruss wrote:John asked,

Why is the 555118 arbor only for the 510 and the 555608 for the 510/520? The only difference between the 510 and 520 is the fence system.
It is a good question. It is the way it was listed since it was for the Mark V 510 but was discontinued and replaced by P/N 555608 before the 520 came out. It was also for the 505 but things didn't continue to be or never were listed for it for some reason. Maybe because it was discontinued but I do not know when. The Mark V 505 I have was made April 28, 2006. I guess everyone is supposed to know if they are looking for something for the Mark V 505 they need to get what is for the 510. Maybe at some point the catalog will no longer reference the 510 either.


OK, that makes sense. SS must have made a change to update the part number before the 520 came out.

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268591 by JPG » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:54 pm

'Question' is, do they differ other than the PN?

Maybe group A(510) was not communicating with group B(520).

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Does Size Matter - Arbors

#268615 by chapmanruss » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:08 pm

When the larger table system of the Mark V 510 (and 505) came out they needed, as we all know, longer arbors for it. 555118 was made for the 5/8" blades and is a longer version of the 5/8" Arbor 555321 for the original 500 table system. 555608 was being made for the Sawsmith Table Saw and is the same length as 555118. At some point between the introduction of the Mark V 510 and the 520 Shopsmith decided to discontinue the Arbor 555118 and use the Sawsmith Table Saw Arbor 555608 for the larger table systems instead. These two Arbors are different and not just a part number change.

Now if we want to confuse things more there is another arbor that was made for the Sawsmith Table Saw that looks just like Arbor 555608 with a raised 1-1/4” ring on the base under the nut and is P/N 555572. This could have been used instead of 555130 the 1-1/4" Arbor for the 510, 520 and M7.

So why did the 5/8" Universal Arbor P/N 505506 get renamed the Molder/Dado Arbor? Previous to the release of the 5/8" Saw Blade Arbors 505506 was for the standard 5/8" arbor hole saw blades, Dado blades and other items with a 5/8" hole. The Molder Head attached directly to the spindle but again with the introduction of the Mark V 510 and the deeper throat of the lower guard it could not. The Molder Head now needed an arbor. It is also the reason the new Molder Head doesn't have a set screw for direct attachment to the Spindle. Shopsmith first came out with a Molder/Dado Arbor P/N 555619 but soon discontinued it and renamed the 5/8" Universal Arbor to the Molder/Dado Arbor since blades had their own arbors and the only things Shopsmith was selling for use on the Universal Arbor was Dado Blade sets and now the Molder Head.

It is all the changes over the years which make the Arbor history both confusing and interesting. It has taken a lot of searching through manuals, catalogs and other sources to get to where I am today on the history of the Arbors, Spindles and Chucks.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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