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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261278 by masonsailor2 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:25 am

Sorry I am coming in late on this one. A shop of 100 sg ft is going to require some special consideration on dust collection. Due to the cubic space in a small shop the concentration of dust particles goes up dramatically and therefore the so does the health and explosion risk. This is not the place to try and save money. In that size shop you have about 8-900 cubic feet of air space to deal with. A HF dust collector does 1750 cfm with the filter bag supplied which is in the 5-10 micron area. 5-10 micron is good enough to deal with the explosion risk but not even close on the health risk level. 1 micron is barely acceptable. The problem is that when you put a 1 micron filter bag on the cfm goes down dramatically. By my own experience it is about a 25 % reduction. Nothing scientific about the measurement but it is a very large reduction in air flow. The best solution is to put the dust collector outside the shop space where it vents to the outside and put a 30 micron bag on it to maximize the cfm. There are issues there also because of loss of heat or cooling depending on where you live and the noise level. I do both. I have a 1 micron filter that recirculates and a 30 micron that just evacuates the air to the outside. When I am doing operations that require a large amount of dust collection I turn them both on. But here in Vegas in the summer that means my shop can hit 90 degrees in a hurry and then I have to take a break and let the AC catch up. Remember that all the dust collection in the world will not keep you safe health wise. Heed Dusty’s warning and wear some sort of mask. Make it a good one. Again not the place to try and save money. As woodworkers we deal with some pretty toxic stuff. The dust from some woods is extremely toxic. Spalted woods are in a class by themselves. Keep in mind that spalting is caused by fungus.
Paul

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261314 by djscruggs » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:18 am

Paul, this was so helpful. I think my description of the size of my space was inaccurate from a "dust containment" perspective. I've got a walled off area of my basement that is about 8 feet wide and and about 40 feet long....so I guess technically, its 320 sq feet. However, I only use the end of that space for woodworking, and the rest is storage, shelving, like a long, wide walkway with shelving on both sides. So I may have overstated the "concentration" from an air perspective. I don't have an option of venting to the outside unless I was to punch a hole in the brick wall, which I'm not inclined to do. I could vent to the other side of the internal cinder block wall and vent to the somewhat vented crawl space, but then, that only has flooring that separates the crawl space from my living room.

I really appreciate the feedback you have already provided. I'm wondering if you have any change of direction given the added input I just gave?

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261320 by beeg » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:25 pm

Might want to give a read here.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.cfm

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261390 by djscruggs » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:45 am

so very helpful! Tnx!

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261957 by djscruggs » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:11 pm

All of this input has been incredibly helpful, and I'm probably going to use almost all of it. I trust, based on all the input, that there is no such thing as overkill, but here's what I'm doing.

I bought a barely used HF dust collector that I've installed just on the other side of the cinder block wall. As the crow flies, its only 6 feet from my shopsmith. I will run 4" pipe to the other side of the wall where I will locate a cyclone. The pipe and flex tubing will connect to my shopsmith and all of its accessories, with another pipe and tube feeding a routing table and small drill press. On the other end of the shop, (my space is long and skinny....actually measures about 8 feet wide by about 15-20 feet of useable space....) I have a 12 gallon shop vac that I've also fitted with a small dust deputy knockoff cyclone. I can roll it out of the way and under my very long work table that spans the length of the shop. I also have a 3m respirator mask. This is all under construction as we speak. I've run all the wiring: added 2 20 amp circuits, and the electrician shows up on Monday to put it in the box and check my work so I don't blow my fool head off.

Last question: Have any of you had ANY experience with a cyclone that is basically a lid with two 4" holes, the incoming piece having a short run inside that directs the flow sideways in the bucket? The only compelling case for it is cost. The other alternative is the much more expensive dust deputy XL which runs about $250. At my woodworking supply store here, they only sell these lids as a cyclone alternative, which surprised me.

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261971 by JPG » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:17 am

djscruggs wrote:All of this input has been incredibly helpful, and I'm probably going to use almost all of it. I trust, based on all the input, that there is no such thing as overkill, but here's what I'm doing.

I bought a barely used HF dust collector that I've installed just on the other side of the cinder block wall. As the crow flies, its only 6 feet from my shopsmith. I will run 4" pipe to the other side of the wall where I will locate a cyclone. The pipe and flex tubing will connect to my shopsmith and all of its accessories, with another pipe and tube feeding a routing table and small drill press. On the other end of the shop, (my space is long and skinny....actually measures about 8 feet wide by about 15-20 feet of useable space....) I have a 12 gallon shop vac that I've also fitted with a small dust deputy knockoff cyclone. I can roll it out of the way and under my very long work table that spans the length of the shop. I also have a 3m respirator mask. This is all under construction as we speak. I've run all the wiring: added 2 20 amp circuits, and the electrician shows up on Monday to put it in the box and check my work so I don't blow my fool head off.

Last question: Have any of you had ANY experience with a cyclone that is basically a lid with two 4" holes, the incoming piece having a short run inside that directs the flow sideways in the bucket? The only compelling case for it is cost. The other alternative is the much more expensive dust deputy XL which runs about $250. At my woodworking supply store here, they only sell these lids as a cyclone alternative, which surprised me.


Those 'lids' are a Thien(sp?) separator. AIUI they work fairly well.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#261974 by rpd » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:02 am

This is the link to the Thien separator forum. http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0

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Ron Dyck
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10ER #23430, 10ER #84609, 10ER #94987,two SS A-34 jigsaws for 10ER.
1959 Mark 5 #356595 Greenie, SS Magna Jointer, SS planer, SS bandsaw, SS scroll saw (gray), DC3300,

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#262006 by djscruggs » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:05 pm

ron, thanks for the referral to Thien!!!

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Re: Dust Collection needs - new shop setup

#262009 by reible » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:05 pm

I have had one of these for maybe 20 years. It fits the top of a 20"dia. garbage can. I don't always use it as it works better at chips then thing like sanding dust.

I did make a minor modification to mine, the ports were just holes that you stock the hose in but I added some hard attachments to make it easier for me to use.

dust one.jpg
dust one.jpg (267.87 KiB) Viewed 11103 times


dust two.jpg
dust two.jpg (199.71 KiB) Viewed 11103 times


Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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