Electrolysis Question - So I don't burn the house down

pds0006 · Post by **pds0006** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:09 pm

So I've solved my charger problems and can get the bubbles. Now my issue is with wiring up the anode and connecting it to said charger. I had gotten some steel wire (picture hanging wire) and used it to connect my submerged anodes and link up to the charger. Fortunately I stayed to watch it fire up so I noticed the wire burning into the plywood I had across the bucket to hold pieces. So way too hot but my understanding was that neither copper nor stainless steel should be used in the electrolysis process. How do I connect multiple submerged anodes and connect that to the charger?

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:15 pm

Have ya read about it here?
http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:24 pm

pds0006 wrote:So I've solved my charger problems and can get the bubbles. Now my issue is with wiring up the anode and connecting it to said charger. I had gotten some steel wire (picture hanging wire) and used it to connect my submerged anodes and link up to the charger. Fortunately I stayed to watch it fire up so I noticed the wire burning into the plywood I had across the bucket to hold pieces. So way too hot but my understanding was that neither copper nor stainless steel should be used in the electrolysis process. How do I connect multiple submerged anodes and connect that to the charger?

I don't believe the wires should get hot at all. Not even a little bit.

With a battery charger for the power source, you are not going to get that much current flow UNLESS the positive and negative leads of the charger are connected together.

However, you said you had bubbles in the solution. There would be no bubbles if the anode and cathode were shorted together AND the battery charger would likely not last long if shorted together.

I use copper spring clips to connect to the item being de-rusted. I knew not to use stainless steel or galvanized (because they out gas toxic fumes) but I have never hear of a warning against copper.

BUT.....don't count on reusing the copper spring clips.

This won't help you much but it will me. I am about to do some electolysis rust removal on some RV trailer parts. I'll watch to see if the wires get hot.

I'll be using rebar electodes, copper wire, copper spring clips and an old Sears battery charger with Arm and Hammer washing soda mix.

pds0006 · Post by **pds0006** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:58 pm

I did read that along with several others linked off various restoration threads. That one says to "Tie the electrodes together with wire or cables. I use copper wire twisted around the top ends" but this also is talking about keeping the connections above the water. I've got steel plate at the bottom of my tub so I need to either move the connection point above the water line (how?) or get something to connect that isn't copper/stainless and won't burn the house down.

joshh · Post by **joshh** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:29 pm

Here is an excellent video on the process that may help:
http://youtu.be/ka6ArN_ehas

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:46 pm

1) Use larger wire(#14 minimum).

2) Do not be concerned with any contamination caused by wire material. The amounts of bad stuff will be minimal.

3) Do this outdoors. You will be generating both oxygen and hydrogen, do allow it to escape!

All that said, do limit your choice of anode material to steel etc..

Plates work better than rods.

The anodes are truly sacrificial, they will 'disappear'.

Fred Grover · Post by **Fred Grover** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:52 am

This is an interesting subject but could turn dangerous I guess. I have seen others use this method but have never tried it myself. What would happen if it started to rain when you had your charger and everything outside for the night or morning dew. Any effects or possibly wreck your charger? Thanks like I said it is interesting.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:14 pm

Fred Grover wrote:This is an interesting subject but could turn dangerous I guess. I have seen others use this method but have never tried it myself. What would happen if it started to rain when you had your charger and everything outside for the night or morning dew. Any effects or possibly wreck your charger? Thanks like I said it is interesting.

Put a water proof lid over the charger.

Raise the power cord and the power cord/socket end of the extension cord above ground level and cover.

Quit worrying.!:)

P.S. to 'speed' things up, add a car battery to the circuit.

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:26 pm

If I expect bad weather or not I often put the charger inside the garage, the cord runs under the door and to my bucket. The bucket can be lightly covered with plenty of air space to let it off-gas.

As an added safety issue the charger should be turned off before you disconnect the leads (potential spark near cleaning tank with gases being given off at the tank).

A battery while it sounds like a nice idea has the capacity to generate huge amounts of current, if you chose to do this make sure the terminals are covered so nothing can drop on to them, like wise across the terminals in the tub.

I knew a guy once who tested his car battery by shorting it with pliers. The metal would vaporize where it arced.

They use to sell a "welder" that was powered by a car battery, know a guy who had one and loved it until the battery exploded.... he was OK but it sprayed sulfuric acid and then pored out the crack.... nice etching of the concrete garage floor.

Me, I like to have the limited current of 10 amps. Personal choice to be safe.

Ed

Fred Grover wrote:This is an interesting subject but could turn dangerous I guess. I have seen others use this method but have never tried it myself. What would happen if it started to rain when you had your charger and everything outside for the night or morning dew. Any effects or possibly wreck your charger? Thanks like I said it is interesting.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Ed raises very valid concerns re the battery.

I included a reference to using one when I recalled Nick suggested including one in his 'dissertation' on this process in IIRC the Workshop Companion.

Adding over current protection at the battery would indeed be prudent.

FWIW adding a large value capacitor would also speed things up for the same reason.

What the battery or capacitor does is increase the time of current flow, not actually increase the current.

Most 'dumb' chargers are merely transformers(tapped primary if dual range) and rectifiers. Their output is pulsating(full wave) DC. The battery or capacitor creates a more steady/continuous current flow. FWIW the 'meters' on dumb chargers are similar to old timey automotive gauges(thermal spring).

Smart chargers will likely shut off if the output current gets too low.