Aligning Extension Tables

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dusty
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Aligning Extension Tables

Post by dusty »

reible wrote:Hi,

The easy solution is to just get an extension table for each end and hope for the best.

Now anyone want to here about the extension table tubes not fitting when swapped end for end??? Yea I didn't think so.

Ed
Thank you, ed. This seems to be the answer to my question. I'm sorry that I didn't understand from your previous posts but I think I do now. I've been under the weather for a couple days and SWMBO gets all uptight when I try to go to the shop - that means I won't be there before tomorrow.

My first task will be check tube alignment per your procedure. I'm real curious because I have been bothered by this situation for some time and have spent a lot of time checking and rechecking.

Thanks again.

However, the other reason for this post. I am very interested in hearing what you have to say about extension table tubes that don't fit when swapped end for end.
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Dusty
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

"If you have the time Nick can you give your setup a check?"

's fine, Ed. The tolerance for this particular alignment is the set of the tooth on the saw blade (or the different between the thickness of the carbide tooth and the thickness of the blade body divided by two), and a quick check on one of the three 520s I adjusted yesterday shows it to be well within those limits no matter what side of the machine the aux table is mounted.

Stands to reason. If the connector tubes slide easily throught the rails, then the rails are aligned. If the aux rails are aligned with the main table rails, the orientation of the fence to the blade won't change no matter where you mount the fence or where you mount the aux table.

Dusty, Ed's procedure for aligning the frame is interesting but the experiment I performed yesterday afternoon seems to indicate that it is unneccessary. Read my previous post.

With all good wishes,
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

"If you have the time Nick can you give your setup a check?"

's fine, Ed. The tolerance for this particular alignment is the set of the tooth on the saw blade (or the different between the thickness of the carbide tooth and the thickness of the blade body divided by two), and a quick check on one of the three 520s I adjusted yesterday shows it to be well within those limits no matter what side of the machine the aux table is mounted.

Stands to reason. If the connector tubes slide easily throught the rails, then the rails are aligned. If the aux rails are aligned with the main table rails, the orientation of the fence to the blade won't change no matter where you mount the fence or where you mount the aux table.

Dusty, Ed's procedure for aligning the frame is interesting but the experiment I performed yesterday afternoon seems to indicate that it is unneccessary. Read my previous post.

With all good wishes,
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reible
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Post by reible »

Nick wrote:"If you have the time Nick can you give your setup a check?"

's fine, Ed. The tolerance for this particular alignment is the set of the tooth on the saw blade (or the different between the thickness of the carbide tooth and the thickness of the blade body divided by two), and a quick check on one of the three 520s I adjusted yesterday shows it to be well within those limits no matter what side of the machine the aux table is mounted.

Stands to reason. If the connector tubes slide easily throught the rails, then the rails are aligned. If the aux rails are aligned with the main table rails, the orientation of the fence to the blade won't change no matter where you mount the fence or where you mount the aux table.

Dusty, Ed's procedure for aligning the frame is interesting but the experiment I performed yesterday afternoon seems to indicate that it is unneccessary. Read my previous post.

With all good wishes,
Nick,

So you are saying the machine was able to hold the .012" or so over the exposed part a 10" blade at about 4 feet. That's great and clearly something I have not been able to do on my machine. Come summer I'll have to give it another try.

Just to be clear the information about adjusting the machine is not mine but is information that shopsmith provided of how to align their machine. The set screw adjustment as well as the squaring of the end are related to mounting tools on the aux. side of the machine. This was before they started using the new style tubes on the spt's that provide adjustment. They ask for a capture range of no more the 1/16" between shaft ends. Even gave you this handy chipboard gauge to check it with...

Ed
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reible
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Post by reible »

Hi Dusty,

The first thing to check is that the tubes fit with nothing attached to them. I have one I picked up off ebay that has a bit of a problem with that. I have been going to try to correct it but have worried it might just crack the casting. (I've also thought about peining it). It looks different then the newer ones I have from 1976 onward and may have started life back in the 50's or 60's. So, if you have such a bent part this is not going to help at all.

The legs need to "float" into place. If thing grab you may canted the whole assembly to start with, so make sure this doesn't happen... all the way down then slide up with one or two finger in the middle to get in the height range. Think smooth slide into position.

What you need to do as I have previous mentioned and Nick addressed again is to not stress the leg assembly. The trick is to get the top aligned by using the 4 top nuts... the table top just needs to sit on the assembly below. (I find I like to put a weight on the table 5-8 pounds to adjust against... more tactal feed back). Once you have the top aligned it is just a matter of bring the washers and nuts up from below to hold it in place... Again see one of my old posts on this or Nick's recent one. If you do it this way you will not distort the legs and they fit fine.

Now back to the other issue.

You may want to try it with the connection tubes in place as Nick mentioned, I found I had more trouble "feeling the nuts into place" this way but that this way it's easier to keep everything in alignment as they are held in place by the tubes. The last two adjustment times I have used this method and was going to do a posting about with pictures but now that we are on the subject might as well discuss it now. (Another of my fall projects that didn't get done). What I have not done is to see what effect this has on the overall alignment and just how close I now am to what Nick has. If I recall it was late Aug or early Sept when last did my right extension table so I should be able to just go out and move it to the left side and see how close I am.

I used the method from the shopsmith manual three years ago when I spent a day trying to get the extension table to exchange and rip without pinching from the left side. Perhaps I just gave up too soon. Only a couple of more months of cold weather before I can get back out there and give it another go.

What I'm excited about is if I can get both of my extension tables to be able to exchange... no more "oh this is the right one... have to get the left one for mounting here" sort of thing. The fact of the matter is one way or the other I like having two of them, it just give you added flexability.

I'm also waiting to be able to try out some different mounting arrangements for my shopsmith mounted router table. I have one or two cool ideas I haven't seen anyone try yet but I need to test them before give them out... You people who have a shop to work in year round are so lucky. It's been years since I could do that. I think I need a patron to fund my "research and development" just not enough budget being retired. (I've had only 4 shop days in the last month).

Ed
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Ed in Tampa
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Post by Ed in Tampa »

Nick wrote:"...perhaps I'm a dreamer here, but having worked with the Shopsmith for over 20 years I still can not see any reason why the machine can not be brought into such alignment to permit the swapping of the Aux table from one side to the other and remain aligned."

No, Ed, you're not a dreamer. It is possible and it's a whole lot simpler than any of us have guessed here, all our long and learned treatises on the subject not withstanding. This afternoon, Jim McCann showed me a simple procedure for aligning the auxiliary table that results in an aux table that can be used on both sides of the machine. I came back back to the Academy, tried it on three different machines, and it worked as advertised.

There is a stack-up of tolerances, as Ed (Reible) pointed out, but we maintain sufficient precision in our manufacturing procedures that this should not be a problem. And the Mark V design includes the ability to adjust the frame alignment to compensate for small differences. Furthermore, the frame is rigid enough to hold it's alignment -- or this particular alignment -- even on uneven floors. After aligning the auxiliary tables on the three machines I mentioned, I propped up the various corners on scraps of wood to simulate wildy uneven floors and tables remained aligned.

The procedure is short and simple enough that I can show it to you on a Sawdust Session, so I've scheduled one on February 9. In the meantime, here are the bare bones:

1. Make sure your table is properly aligned to the saw blade. When the miter slots are perpendicular to the axis of rotation, the main table rails will be parallel to the way tubes.

2. Make sure the rails on both the main table and the auxiliary table are set to the proper height, using the aluminum gauge we supplied with the machine.

3. Make sure the main table surface is square to the saw blade.

Note: While all of these alignments are critical, none of them need be so precise that they cannot be accomplished with ordinary measuring equipment. The closer they are, the better this will work. But on the three machines I worked on, the miter slots were between .002" and .005" of parallel to the saw blade -- good alignment, but not quite up to military specs. This did not seem to adversely affect the results.

4. Place the auxiliary table in the base (right side) and loosen all the nuts that hold the table to the dogbone. Slide the table all the way to the right so it contacts the auxilary table.

5. Slide the connector tubes through the rails on both tables and tighten the locking knobs. Both tables should be at the same height if the rails (see #2) are set properly.

6. Adjust the nuts with your fingers so both the top and bottom nuts just touch the dogbone, then tighten them. Loosen the locking knobs. The connector tubes should slide back and forth through the rails in both tables easily.

7. Move the auxiliary table to the headrest (left side) and slide the table as close as possible. Adjust both tables to the same height and slide the connector tubes through the rails of the main table and into the rails of the auxilary table.

8. If the tubes bind or will not align with the auxiliary table rails, raise or lower the allen set screw in the headrest (under the way tube tie bar, toward the rear) until they do.

That's it, folks. Worked for me three times out of three. If it doesn't work for you, see me on February 9 and we'll talk.

With all good wishes,
Nick
Again your the super hero!!!!!!!!!
I did exactly what you said and my Aux table now works perfectly in either side of my Shopsmith.
I have been trying for a year now and everytime I asked I was told it simply could not be done. Well you proved them wrong because it worked exactly as you described.
THANKS!!!!!!!

I completely removed my main table from the machine taking it completely off the trunions. I cleaned everything. Then using your procedure on aligning the table I began my adjustments. The only difference was I used a Fifty dollar bill instead of 20. I figured if a 20 was good a fifty would be that much better. :D

After I got my main table into what I consider to be perfect adjustment I then slide it far right and adjusted my aux table as you detailed. I then moved it to the left position and using the set screw so the tubes matched up, again as you described.

I then put my SS into different setups and moved it around in my garage and checked the alignment. With every change everything check out perfectly.

I knew I my model 500 setup this way and I could not figure out why my 510/520 wouldn't be the same.

The secret was the set screw. My new maintaince manual (updated with the install of the 510) does not mention the set screw. But I believe my model 500 did. Because the instant you mentioned it I believe it remembered adjusting it to align the aux table on the 500.

Incidentally I think all my messing around with the bench and way tubes was useless since nothing ever changed. although it seemed to be logical.

Thanks again. You deserve a big star for that one!
Ed
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Post by charlese »

Hey Ed! How about letting me borrow that $50! It's probably magical! Of course, I'd send it right back after alignment!:rolleyes:
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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Ed in Tampa
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Post by Ed in Tampa »

charlese wrote:Hey Ed! How about letting me borrow that $50! It's probably magical! Of course, I'd send it right back after alignment!:rolleyes:
Chuck
It is in the mail! Hehehheheh!
Ed
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Nick
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Post by Nick »

Thanks for your kinds words, Ed, but I have to pass them on to Jim McCann for this one. I wrote the Model 500 Owner's manual in 1983 and covered this procedure, but Jim had to remind me of it. I had completely forgotten.

With all good wishes,
flackbait
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Re: Aligning Extension Tables

Post by flackbait »

I cannot get the tube guides on the main and extension table to align. They are way out of "adjustment" that the adjustment of the posts on the aux table allow for. This is on a 500 upgraded to a 520. I have tried rotating the aux table 180 and still no alignment.
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