What affects getting a square crosscut with the miter gauge

[everettdavis]

Sorry Sir

I am not familiar with the 520 fence , that said,,,,, is the track for the fence not square with the miter slot?

Every table saw in the world can and should be aligned for cutting using the miter slot ?

Since this is a shopsmith machine designed for multi purpose ,,, the sanding disc is also square/parallel with the table edge as well as the miter slot or it isn't properly aligned ??,,

Not trying to beat a dead horse ,,yet I know it seems like I am ,,,,,just trying to understand more about the table ,,,,

Assuming you feel safe using the jig to set your miter angle ,,doesnt that also align the miter gage with the miter slot in the table??,,, I have to assume you trust the miter slot and fence alignment all the way across your table.

I trust your table,,, and I have never seen it in person.

Sorry for beating a dead horse.

Hobbyman2,


https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 69#p210669 titled “My method to the alignment process” was a thread I started in April of last year after many dead horses had been beaten on this subject, yet newer forum members for whatever reason keep asking the same answered questions, and some seem to do so just to make others irritable.

Do these folks just not read any of the topics in discussion before asking the same questions? I try to be patient with newbies, but in reading some of the questions, it becomes more apparent that some newbies have Shopsmiths, and some do not.

That’s ok, but if one will just look at what is contained in the first two sticky posts (always at the top) of the Maintenance and Repair Forum, they will find that MickyD in “Everything Mark 5 / V - Technical info, documentation, links”, and JPG in “Newowner Information” have provided links to the relevant areas, that will answer the questions.

Subsequently, in January of this year, at the request of a number of members, I created and added a PDF document "My Method to the Shopsmith Alignment Process" to documents that may be downloaded in the first post in the Buying a Used Shopsmith Revisited thread, as well as posting in in my Google Drive. That PDF document was announced in http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... 88#p226688 and contains information from the previous thread responses and is contained in my contributions to collect and organize answers for newbies and seasoned owners alike in the thread “Buying a Used Shopsmith Revisited” https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 90#p185690 which has that document link, presently the 2nd one down, which could change as I add material.

Last year in restoring manuals for the 10ER written almost seventy (70) years ago, I found that MAGNA, Hans Goldschmidt and R J De Cristoforo had published alignment instructions for the 10ER before I was born, instructions that mirrored in many ways what I had concluded independently about alignment.

I point you to that by the figure I attach from it, and re-direct you and anyone else to the discussions and comments in the posts above and those that preceded them. We aren’t beating a dead horse, or changing horses in mid-stream on this topic; The stream dried up decades ago, and the horse has decayed into dust for many years.

Everett

FIG 16.png (83.04 KiB) Viewed 4237 times

[Sazerac81]

How does one go about beating a poltergeist horse?

Thanks for the re-share Everett! Looks simple enough. Looks like the manufacturer's also did not trust the outside edges of the mark V 500 table as reference surfaces for square.

Cheers,
John

[Hobbyman2]

Thank you Everett

I bought my SS used ,,,with out any of the documentations ,,,, that did not bother me because like I said ,,,,,I have been around the block and know what has worked for me over the years , what I have done has provided me with the best this machine has to offer ,that said I will re do every thing and do it this way,,,, and then check it all again,, to verify the results , I will also print that and frame it .

[Hobbyman2]

How does one go about beating a poltergeist horse?

Thanks for the re-share Everett! Looks simple enough. Looks like the manufacturer's also did not trust the outside edges of the mark V 500 table as reference surfaces for square.

Cheers,
John

===============

Maybe some one aligned their table to a wobbly out of plane sanding disc or blade and complained !

After checking out the info just posted I agree this would be the best Senarrio.


Sorry for the confusion .

[reible]

I'm wondering if shopsmith would allow us to publish the section out of the manual on how they tell us to do the set up of their machine?

I don't believe it is presently online, or at least I don't know where to find it if it is.

This is in the "B" section in the current manual, in mine it starts at B-19. It covers a lot of good information and has plenty of detail to get a machine aligned.

It should be everyone's starting point. Later you might find a few changes you like to make and that is fine. I know I have but I've used these methods for year and years and they do work. I now use a master plate rather then a blade as an example but the saw blade does work just fine.

Ed

[Mike907]

Will this do?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manu ... manual.pdf

Linked from this page:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... elpkit.htm
Mike

[reible]

Will this do?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manu ... manual.pdf

Linked from this page:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... elpkit.htm
Mike

GREAT!!!! Thank you for knowing where this was. I looked around but did not check out the help_kit.

So from now on when the subject comes up we should reference this link. If you don't have the manual then save this link or save the pdf or print it out or do all of the above.

Ed

[JPG]

Will this do?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manu ... manual.pdf

Linked from this page:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... elpkit.htm
Mike

Generally speaking that is indeed helpful if we were concerned with 'procedure'.

However this thread is(was) about understanding what affects getting a square cut and was a carry over from a couple of earlier threads. Obviously proper alignment does, but this was intended to be a much deeper discussion.

I believe the original intent has failed since the information has fallen on some deaf ears.

Hopefully it has been helpful to anyone who has paid attention and understood.

Understanding what affects what allows a better understanding of why alignment procedures are what they are. Key to that is the elimination of all irrelevant details.

Often adjustment procedures have steps that are actually secondary to the intended goal and being successful depends upon previous alignments. It is a lack of understanding of when that is the case that leads to mis-understanding.

An example of a secondary step is the assumption that the table edges are 'square' and therefore are a reasonable reference. May be a good assumption, but understand it is 'secondary', and not a direct reference and therefore depends upon the accuracy of that assumption. A direct step makes NO assumptions. It is those direct steps that are relevant to the intended purpose of this thread.

Assumptions can greatly simplify a 'procedure', but if those assumptions are invalid, then the procedure is possibly doomed from the start.

[Hobbyman2]

I agree , on the other hand,,,, I don't believe any one suggested assuming anything .
that was the reason of the pictures in the other thread


I also agree
This thread was about square cuts and how they can be effected with the miter gage .
I believe the previous post by everettdavis has pictures that describe the procedure that gives proper square and true cuts however it leaves out one very important issue and that it assumes the arbor ,,the blade and or sanding disc is flat and balanced and not warped or bent.

Please continue.

[JPG]

Ya know - I wonder if some folk have a memory issue.