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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258684 by jsburger » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:24 pm

sehast wrote:Its not FB, it is the way the group leaders decided to set up the group. It provides a method of vetting members before they are given access. The hope is that this will discourage members from pursuing unwanted activities when on the site like we see from time to time on this forum.


Like Dusty I don't do FB either. Maybe if I did the answer to my question would be obvious. So the question is how does requiring one to join the SS FB group prevent someone from "pursuing unwanted activities"? Once you join can you not post anything you want?

One has to join this forum to be able to post here but that does not stop the occasional spam. At least here you can read posts without joining. That is not true on FB from what I have seen.

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258685 by dusty » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:33 pm

jsburger wrote:
sehast wrote:Its not FB, it is the way the group leaders decided to set up the group. It provides a method of vetting members before they are given access. The hope is that this will discourage members from pursuing unwanted activities when on the site like we see from time to time on this forum.


Like Dusty I don't do FB either. Maybe if I did the answer to my question would be obvious. So the question is how does requiring one to join the SS FB group prevent someone from "pursuing unwanted activities"? Once you join can you not post anything you want?

One has to join this forum to be able to post here but that does not stop the occasional spam. At least here you can read posts without joining. That is not true on FB from what I have seen.


I don't believe this has anything to do with site security. I think it is just another way to gather information about the user.

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258686 by jsburger » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:37 pm

dusty wrote:
jsburger wrote:
sehast wrote:Its not FB, it is the way the group leaders decided to set up the group. It provides a method of vetting members before they are given access. The hope is that this will discourage members from pursuing unwanted activities when on the site like we see from time to time on this forum.


Like Dusty I don't do FB either. Maybe if I did the answer to my question would be obvious. So the question is how does requiring one to join the SS FB group prevent someone from "pursuing unwanted activities"? Once you join can you not post anything you want?

One has to join this forum to be able to post here but that does not stop the occasional spam. At least here you can read posts without joining. That is not true on FB from what I have seen.


I don't believe this has anything to do with site security. I think it is just another way to gather information about the user.


I totally agree!

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258691 by RFGuy » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:51 pm

I am still not on FB myself. However, the fact that Shopsmith does NOT exist on this forum has prompted me to check out what is posted on FB from time to time using a family member's account. Every social media site has pros and cons to joining it. This forum is also a form of social media and has its own pros and cons as well. I have a speed reducer on order for months now from the MOTHERSHIP and I would have little information on what is going on with this order if I hadn't gone on FB and seen updates there from another customer inquiring about it. More and more I am finding that to get a complete picture of all things Shopsmith I have to peruse both FB and this forum. In the future, I may have to change my mind and join FB....not just for the Shopsmith forums there, but to also join other woodworking communities that largely use FB and Instagram these days to share and collaborate. I am not here to convince anyone to sign up on FB (believe I struggle over this decision)...just pointing out the motivation for someone like myself to consider it.

The private group for Shopsmith on FB is actually a good thing (you just have to answer a few simple questions about Shopsmith to join). It keeps out spam (notice how we keep getting spam posts on this forum?), but some FB private groups are actually moderated. I don't know if the Shopsmith FB group is moderated or not, but for example The Wood Whisperer has a moderated private FB group. If someone legitimately joins but starts becoming a jerk in their posts there, the moderator can shut them down and even kick them out of their private FB group. Not everything posted online is useful or even relevant to a particular discussion, which is where the moderator can help...

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258694 by jsburger » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:21 pm

RFGuy wrote:I am still not on FB myself. However, the fact that Shopsmith does NOT exist on this forum has prompted me to check out what is posted on FB from time to time using a family member's account. Every social media site has pros and cons to joining it. This forum is also a form of social media and has its own pros and cons as well. I have a speed reducer on order for months now from the MOTHERSHIP and I would have little information on what is going on with this order if I hadn't gone on FB and seen updates there from another customer inquiring about it. More and more I am finding that to get a complete picture of all things Shopsmith I have to peruse both FB and this forum. In the future, I may have to change my mind and join FB....not just for the Shopsmith forums there, but to also join other woodworking communities that largely use FB and Instagram these days to share and collaborate. I am not here to convince anyone to sign up on FB (believe I struggle over this decision)...just pointing out the motivation for someone like myself to consider it.

The private group for Shopsmith on FB is actually a good thing (you just have to answer a few simple questions about Shopsmith to join). It keeps out spam (notice how we keep getting spam posts on this forum?), but some FB private groups are actually moderated. I don't know if the Shopsmith FB group is moderated or not, but for example The Wood Whisperer has a moderated private FB group. If someone legitimately joins but starts becoming a jerk in their posts there, the moderator can shut them down and even kick them out of their private FB group. Not everything posted online is useful or even relevant to a particular discussion, which is where the moderator can help...


Once you answer those few questions and join they monitor and archive everything you post.

The problem with FB and all the other BIG social media sites is when you join they collect EVERYTHING about you and sell it to the highest bidder. That is because they have millions/billions of users. The SS forum is a "Social Media" site that is limited to very few users and I am sure SS doesn't collect your data and sell it. There are no adds to click on in this forum.

FWIW, this forum is moderated now and has been for 6 or 8 months. We have not seen any spam for a long time. If you get email for new posts you would see that. I get new topic emails from some obscure new member that don't show up when I log in. They have been deleted by the moderator. Don't ask how I know but it is true. When was the last time you saw a spam post here.

---

John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258695 by RFGuy » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:32 pm

jsburger wrote:
Once you answer those few questions and join they monitor and archive everything you post.

The problem with FB and all the other BIG social media sites is when you join they collect EVERYTHING about you and sell it to the highest bidder. That is because they have millions/billions of users. The SS forum is a "Social Media" site that is limited to very few users and I am sure SS doesn't collect your data and sell it. There are no adds to click on in this forum.

FWIW, this forum is moderated now and has been for 6 or 8 months. We have not seen any spam for a long time. If you get email for new posts you would see that. I get new topic emails from some obscure new member that don't show up when I log in. They have been deleted by the moderator. Don't ask how I know but it is true. When was the last time you saw a spam post here.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this forum wide open for read on the Internet? I mean there are bots from Google, etc. always logged in as users and I can google search for any post on this forum when I am not signed into the forum. So, Google and others are archiving everything on this forum all the time, right? Google and others are using all of our data, whether we are aware of it or not. FB is just more in your face with it, but Google is also monetizing their data on each of us.

I usually see about one spam per week on this forum. Many times someone comments on it and reports it as spam and it is removed. Doesn't someone have to report it for it be removed? Sometimes the spam is off the wall, but other times it is a long form letter kind of woodworking post with an obvious link to some website they are trying to promote.

No, I do hear you, understand and agree with you....I am having a hard time convincing myself to join FB for many, many reasons. Still it is the only way to get up-to-date information from the MOTHERSHIP. Every time I call in to talk to customer service, I get a different person who may or may not know what is going on with my orders.

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258698 by rpd » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:26 pm

RFGuy wrote:
jsburger wrote:
Once you answer those few questions and join they monitor and archive everything you post.

The problem with FB and all the other BIG social media sites is when you join they collect EVERYTHING about you and sell it to the highest bidder. That is because they have millions/billions of users. The SS forum is a "Social Media" site that is limited to very few users and I am sure SS doesn't collect your data and sell it. There are no adds to click on in this forum.

FWIW, this forum is moderated now and has been for 6 or 8 months. We have not seen any spam for a long time. If you get email for new posts you would see that. I get new topic emails from some obscure new member that don't show up when I log in. They have been deleted by the moderator. Don't ask how I know but it is true. When was the last time you saw a spam post here.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this forum wide open for read on the Internet? I mean there are bots from Google, etc. always logged in as users and I can google search for any post on this forum when I am not signed into the forum. So, Google and others are archiving everything on this forum all the time, right? Google and others are using all of our data, whether we are aware of it or not. FB is just more in your face with it, but Google is also monetizing their data on each of us.

I usually see about one spam per week on this forum. Many times someone comments on it and reports it as spam and it is removed. Doesn't someone have to report it for it be removed? Sometimes the spam is off the wall, but other times it is a long form letter kind of woodworking post with an obvious link to some website they are trying to promote.

No, I do hear you, understand and agree with you....I am having a hard time convincing myself to join FB for many, many reasons. Still it is the only way to get up-to-date information from the MOTHERSHIP. Every time I call in to talk to customer service, I get a different person who may or may not know what is going on with my orders.


This forum is open, but the bots only have access to the information on you that is public, ie only your board "name", unless you choose to post your real name, your birthday only if you choose to make that public. so it would be difficult to link to your actual file in Google.

Spam does appear on a fairly regular basis, but is reported almost immediately and promptly removed by admin. So those posts just disappear. :)

I am active here and on Facebook, FF works for simple problems and quick response. but the limited formatting and poor searchability make this forum a much better place to address complex problems, and tutorials like rebuild threads.

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Ron Dyck
==================================================================
10ER #23430, 10ER #84609, 10ER #94987,two SS A-34 jigsaws for 10ER.
1959 Mark 5 #356595 Greenie, SS Magna Jointer, SS planer, SS bandsaw, SS scroll saw (gray), DC3300,

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258699 by JPG » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:28 pm

My limited observation lately is that spam seems to have a short shelf life. :cool:

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258709 by RFGuy » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:10 am

I want to thank everyone for this discussion. I appreciate it. I just want to add that in my previous posts I wasn't suggesting that it was an either/or situation. Meaning that I would abandon this forum and go solely to FB. IF I were to sign up for FB, I would continue to visit and hopefully contribute to this forum as well. There are pros and cons to each platform. The searchable aspect of this forum is huge and yes you can search recent posts on FB but it isn't the same. If I could generalize from my ~6 months on this forum and 2-3 months browsing Shopsmith groups on FB...I tend to see a range of posts on this forum from softball kinds of questions to hardball ones. Where this forum excels is in answering the tough, hardball kinds of questions. It lends itself well to long form answers for these difficult questions which often need a deep level of understanding and experience. In comparison, I tend to see more softball questions on the FB group. Definitely more short form questions and answers on FB because the platform lends itself to that. Lots of questions about how much something is worth for buying/selling, something simple broke - what do I do now?, etc., etc. Given the nature of FB, often an answer is posted very quickly there. I see a lot more noob questions on FB than here, i.e. someone just picked up a Shopsmith off Craigslist for the first time and want to know where to get started. The key difference between this forum and FB that I was trying to highlight is that Shopsmith (employees) have a presence somewhat on the Shopsmith FB group and they seem to be trying to grow their presence. As a customer when I call up a company and sit on the phone for 20 minutes until I get to talk to someone and I get 3 different answers about my order when I call 3 different times wasting 1 hour of my time, that is frustrating. To see other customers go online on FB and post a question direct to them and get an answer for why their order is backed up that is a big, big difference.

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Re: A Facebook Response from Shopsmith

#258710 by dusty » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:25 am

RFGuy wrote:I want to thank everyone for this discussion. I appreciate it. I just want to add that in my previous posts I wasn't suggesting that it was an either/or situation. Meaning that I would abandon this forum and go solely to FB. IF I were to sign up for FB, I would continue to visit and hopefully contribute to this forum as well. There are pros and cons to each platform. The searchable aspect of this forum is huge and yes you can search recent posts on FB but it isn't the same. If I could generalize from my ~6 months on this forum and 2-3 months browsing Shopsmith groups on FB...I tend to see a range of posts on this forum from softball kinds of questions to hardball ones. Where this forum excels is in answering the tough, hardball kinds of questions. It lends itself well to long form answers for these difficult questions which often need a deep level of understanding and experience. In comparison, I tend to see more softball questions on the FB group. Definitely more short form questions and answers on FB because the platform lends itself to that. Lots of questions about how much something is worth for buying/selling, something simple broke - what do I do now?, etc., etc. Given the nature of FB, often an answer is posted very quickly there. I see a lot more noob questions on FB than here, i.e. someone just picked up a Shopsmith off Craigslist for the first time and want to know where to get started. The key difference between this forum and FB that I was trying to highlight is that Shopsmith (employees) have a presence somewhat on the Shopsmith FB group and they seem to be trying to grow their presence. As a customer when I call up a company and sit on the phone for 20 minutes until I get to talk to someone and I get 3 different answers about my order when I call 3 different times wasting 1 hour of my time, that is frustrating. To see other customers go online on FB and post a question direct to them and get an answer for why their order is backed up that is a big, big difference.


Are you assuming that questions posted on FB and answered there are answered by someone other that the Shopsmith respondent that you talk to in Customer Service.

If Shopsmith was a "large" operation with dozens of employees, I might agree. Otherwise, I do not.

I have said this before. When pursuing information from Shopsmith...be persistent.

To avoid long wait times, call early in the morning.

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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