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Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252087 by reible » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:51 pm

I finally got around to trying out the new shark guard and got to rip up some wood for a project. I have 9 videos that came out good enough to show you. They will be ready sometime later today.

If you were planning on ordering a shark guard today then I would hold off.

For today's testing I started with the standard setup of the lower guard with only the small flaps on the width adjustment screws and no other modifications. This is pretty much what most of you have so I though that might be the best approach. I was using my 520 with powerpro and ripping some 3/4" bargain wood about 3/4" wide. I have an L off-set so the guards are not interfered with by the fence. I have the stock table insert. I'm using a combo blade and not a rip blade for the cutting.

The shop vac is attached to the lower guard and running for these tests. Later when I switch to the shark guard I added a "T" to the line and have a hose to the shark guard and to the lower guard. On the final few videos you will see what happens when I run a hose directly to just the shark guard.

For the amount of cutting I did it was amazing how much saw dust was left uncollected. What a mess, I had forgotten how bad it gets.

Anyway after the videos are all up I will post again with links and explain. what you are seeing.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252090 by Gene Howe » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:06 pm

I'll be waiting. A Shark Guard is/was on my list.

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252092 by reible » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:33 pm

After looking at the videos again I found another one the will work so scratch the 9 I mentioned and make that ten.


The first 4 videos are of the stock shopsmith set-up, well as near as I care to take it. The shop vac is hooked to the lower guard and as I explained before I'm ripping up some 3/4" stock with a combo blade. There are various views of the sawdust flying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MeWOpFDJ_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1N-QEySFX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBEroWLP4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDQ9QD-YNEw

This is basically a visual test, what you see is what you get. Also notice where the sawdust seems to be coming from and where it is going. I'm not going to hand hold you through it, watch and see what you see........

The next three are with the shark guard hooked up along with the shopsmith lower guard. How much better does this look then the previous videos with the shopsmith guard? Any better? Perhaps in the front? I don't know I guess I was expecting a major improvement and I'm not seeing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JfvzBpBfSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiY5c_2soew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCX3VpYe2so

After thinking this over one thing that came to mind was that the shop vac is not drawing air from two sources, maybe that is adversely effecting the results?? So the next three videos are with the shark guard connected to the shop vac directly and the port on the shopsmith lower guard not connected. Still don't see much if any improvements, how about you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAj8bKxntwA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vui6CV5Fkhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9PPvSUfp-I


Now it could be I just don't have the air flow I need with this shop vac so at some point in the future I will attach one of my other vacuum system and see if I see a difference. That will be some day in the future as I ripped all the wood I needed for now and don't want to just waste wood for the purpose of making a video and testing only.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252093 by Gene Howe » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:06 pm

Thanks, Ed. I can cross it off the list.

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252094 by algale » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:28 pm

Did not expect that and I'm a little bummed. I assumed there would be a dramatic improvement with collection built into the upper guard.

Was there any improvement in terms of accumulations of sawdust on the front of the carriage and floor in front of the machine? In my experiments, it seemed to me the most sawdust escaped between the table and the top of the lower guard at front and accumulated on the carriage (and floor).

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Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252097 by Ed in Tampa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:31 pm

There is something wrong! I think my results are much different.

I said I think, I never recorded them to study after the fact. If I get a chance I will try it out and video the results.

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252102 by reible » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:31 am

I expected a major improvement but like I said there might be some improvement in the front but the amount of dust going out the back looks pretty much the same between the two guards. I can't explain that.

I tried to duplicate what a normal user might find when ripping some wood after buying the new guard. I started with the old guard and yes a lot of sawdust is flying so I expected that the new guard would show some visual improvement but I didn't see it. That is why I did the videos, to show case that improvement. When I didn't see it then I at least wanted others to check them out and see if they saw the same things I did.

Like I said perhaps the shop vac just doesn't have the air flow needed to make this work. I do have a larger dust collector and I can retest at some point but if you are planning on purchasing one of these you might want to rethink it for a while until either I or another member can show that this really does make a major improvement.

I forgot what a mess this makes without any modifications but I will leave it that way until the next tests since I want to have a pretty much stock shopsmith so the results would be what the average user sees.

The other measures that I took made a lot of difference, a very large amount more then the new guard did. Piles of saw dust to pickup today. So when this is over I plan to add back but perhaps modify some of the additions I made to get back to at least that level of collection.

I guess I'm totally spoiled after using festool things, I could more then likely work for a month with them and have less "free" sawdust then the few rips I did today.

If you can notice anything that I'm doing wrong please let me know, right now I feel I wasted the money I spent on this guard.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252103 by dusty » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:47 am

I do better than that with just the simple fixes I made to my lower saw guard BUT I believe there is something else at play, That is way too much saw dust Shark Guard or NO Shark Guard.

Are these tests run with the lower saw guard full open or full closed or elsewhere???

I also suspect that a ShopVac is a low different (in performance) than a "dust collector". No trade names, please.

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252104 by reible » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:12 am

dusty wrote:I do better than that with just the simple fixes I made to my lower saw guard BUT I believe there is something else at play, That is way too much saw dust Shark Guard or NO Shark Guard.

Are these tests run with the lower saw guard full open or full closed or elsewhere???

I also suspect that a ShopVac is a low different (in performance) than a "dust collector". No trade names, please.


Yes a few simple changes yielded some major improvements and I had expected the new guard to do some major changes but I did not see them.

From my previous posts and associated videos on the subject those improvement were visible.

As far as lower guard it is at fully open as it can be contacting the shield which is where I have seen my best results. That however was only looked at related to leakage below the table.

The other factor could be related to very fine dust that would not show up in the videos, perhaps the new guard does better on that??

If I had the time it would be interesting to run some more tests where I could actually collect and measure the sawdust from the dust ports and then collect the sawdust off the floor/machine to compare amounts. This would give an actual numbers but for me working outside this would be hard to do.

Perhaps it could be done by weighing the workpiece the cutting followed by weighing again. The missing weight could then be measure against what is collected. This I could try.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: Today in the shop (Shark Guard testing)

#252105 by algale » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:14 am

I've made improvements to the lower saw guard too but haven't been completely satisfied. I've been looking for something that I think must be made, a kind of collapsible rubber shroud, that would be large enough to fit over the top of the saw guard and seal those darn gaps and soft enough to flex when the table was raised, lowered, and tilted.

A couple of weeks ago when preparing for my recent adventure with the Slow Boat, I was in a camping store and spotted something that might come close to fitting the bill if the rigid bits and bottom were removed leaving just the rubber part. Don't laugh....

https://www.rei.com/product/130717/ulti ... -16-liters

If the rubber part could be attached to the outside of the lower guard and extended high enough to engage the bottom of the table, and if it didn't interfere with the tie bar. It might be feasible.

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Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

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