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The wisdom of the masses

#256466 by farmerwd » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:35 pm

Hey all!

New member / shopsmith owner to the board! I've had a MKV 500 for all of about 3 days now :D To be honest, I had never even heard of shopsmith (or paste wax) until I came across one on craigslist looking for other woodworking tools... and dove in!

Felt like I brought a piece of Americana home with me, and I'm as much excited to restore it as I am to make things with it.

I've been trawling through the helpful stickies / google drive files / whatever I can get my hands on to start it back up on some sort of maintenance track. Thus far I've lightly polished the upper tubes back to mildly acceptable, vacuumed & blown out any sawdust I could find, lubricated and ran the headstock through a few slow low-high cycles, and waxed the heck out of anything that I've busted any rust off of. It lives again!

That being said - I'm stuck. My Lathe Drive Center is darn near welded to the quill spindle. The set screw comes out no problem, and about 24 hours of letting PB Blast sit in the cavity has done nothing but make my hands smell. I used a rubber mallet to lightly tap the center from all directions trying to encourage the penetrant to get in there... I'm not sure the fluid level even changed.

I'm not sure if I should heat it up, soak it in some elaborate bath attachment, wrench on it, destroy the center with a bearing puller, yank the quill, or what. I looked and looked for similar situations, but each time it seemed to be a different attachment (i.e. the sanding disk / drill chuck/ etc.)

So needless to say - I'm stuck! Any suggestions?

Attachments

its_stuck.jpg
MKV 500 - Quill Spindle - Rust-welded to the lathe drive center.
its_stuck.jpg (903.92 KiB) Viewed 2396 times

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Brand new to Shopsmiths - Working with & working on a MarkV - SS54109.

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256469 by JPG » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:00 pm

First welcome!

Next in importance is thee MUST save the quill shaft(yes it is replacable, but $$$$). :(

Now did you try to get some pblaster in between the aluminum collar and the lathe center?

Heat may help(judiciously).

If all else has failed, a wedge between the collar and the center to just get it moving. Then rocking it back and forth. Twisting should help. Worst case sacrifice the center.

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256472 by dusty » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:23 pm

It is not unusual at all for JPG and I to disagree. In this case, I would avoid heat until there is no other way. My first approach would be to get a wedge between the aluminum knurled collar and the lathe center and apply pressure. No impact tools to be used except maybe to get the wedge started. There is likely rust between the shaft and the lathe center and if not that a small burr. It is absolutely unbelievable how a tiny metal burr can seize things like this.

Patience. Be patient unless you have dollars to spare.

You might want to view this video before you go much further. http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rn_Pt4.htm

Just for information. Superfluous information for this particular situation but there is a set screw beneath the putty you see in that hole in the aluminum collar.

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256474 by benush26 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:46 pm

Please get feedback as to the effectiveness or stupidity of this idea before you try it from those with significantly more common sense, but could you —-
—- buy a long bolt from the hardware store with the same thread as the set screw, insert it until it hits bottom and then back out about a half turn or so to avoid scratching the spindle. And then while holding tightly (or having someone help hold tightly the other end of the spindle, tap on the head or shaft of the bolt rotationally about the shaft (rather than linearly) with a mallet to try and rotate the spur on the shaft.
If that gets the spur rotating about the shaft, I would hope you could then pull it off or at least give enough clearance to get more PB Blaster (or the like) in to help.
But PLEASE have JPG, Dusty, Farmer and all the others who would know better than I, to evaluate if this idea might do more damage (especially to the shaft) than good BEFORE or if you try it.

Be well,
Ben

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256475 by reible » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:50 pm

If you go to the drill press position and then try to get more lube into the top of the top as JPG suggested and give it a little more time it still might come lose.

You can tap, not hammer with a metal hammer on the side of the lathe center it might help too. If you can get it to move at all then it is likely you can get it off.

Ed

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{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256476 by WileyCoyote » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:45 pm

I guess I am not that patient. I would pull the quill out, sandwich the end of the quill between two chunks of wood in a vice and grab a pipe wrench and twist the lathe center back and forth till it came loose. The gear puller idea works for me, too.

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256480 by JPG » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:21 pm

I said judicious heat(and not a first attempt).

I considered the bolt in the hole and thought the threads in the center were too short to be effective(especially with high inertia tools).

Yes tapping first but it may need to be slowly increased.

For a wedge, a screw driver provides a low angle wedge. Go around the center.

P.S. I also considered the pipe wrench approach but doubted you wanted the scarring that would result on the center.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256481 by dusty » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:24 pm

If you believe PB Blaster might help, you can remove the quill (as shown in the video I linked) and submerge the entire spur center in the solution for a long term soaking.

You might also want to raid the kitchen tool drawer for one (or two) of these. I keep two of them in my tool box. They come in real handy when you might be tempted to employ vise grips (or a pipe wrench).

20190131_151536.jpg
20190131_151536.jpg (1.26 MiB) Viewed 2337 times


Also helpful would be one of these (which I cannot locate in my tools):

wedge.jpg
wedge.jpg (22.29 KiB) Viewed 2330 times

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"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256482 by farmerwd » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:32 pm

Thanks everyone!

I've got 2 kiddos under 4 & 1 on the way - dollars & time are at a premium so I'll persevere! :D

@JPG I have attempted to spray some penetrant next to the collar a few times, but I can't be certain it's not just rolling right off. I'll give it some more opportunity if I can wiggle it out at all.

@dusty Ha - understood! My only source of heat would be a kitchen torch anyway - pretty hesitant on trying because who KNOWS what flammable delights await me. Thanks for the info! And yes - I have been considering picking two of those up - I don't actually have any strap wrenches like that - new tool excuse?

@reible Good point - I tried to go drill press mode this morning with a hacky vial of pbblaster for it to just sit in... but it didnt quite work out, it wasn't high enough to soak the plate to lathe connection. Might try again tonight.

@WileyCoyote Babysteps! I'm not sure I've got the tools to handle a full quill extraction , but thats just a gut feeling.

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Brand new to Shopsmiths - Working with & working on a MarkV - SS54109.

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Re: The wisdom of the masses

#256483 by JPG » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:38 pm

Watch the video Dusty suggested. The only tools needed are the SS tool kit(5/32 allen wrench) and maybe a dental pick(to get the 'stuff' out of the set screw socket). Pay attention to avoiding early releasing the quill handle.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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