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What color to paint my ER10? (post #216)

Poll ended at Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:35 pm

Original OEM gray
18
50%
Rustoleum burgundy
13
36%
Other (post you answer)
5
14%
 
Total votes : 36

Restoration Progress On My 1952 ER10

#37199 by mickyd » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:15 am

Update 9-04-09 Added this thread index showing which posts contain certain info. The thread had gotten so long that it is difficult to easily find particulars. Hope this helps.

THREAD INDEX (work in-process)
  • Recreating the ShopSmith logo plate - posts 14, 18, 39, 59, 65, 69, 108, 176 (the final result)
  • My rusty motor repair - 32, 62, 63, 124, 131,
  • Testing the motor - 3, 33, 35, 36, 62, 124
  • Replacing motor bearings - 124
  • Centrifugal switch - 131,
  • Recreate the motor nameplate - 132, 135, 138 (draft artwork only), 150 (final artwork for acid etch), 181 (final artwork for water slide decal)
  • Electrolysis for rust removal - 43, 47, 63, 70,
  • Frozen feed lever knob - 71, 83,
  • Gauge collar - Breaking it by accident....:mad: 95
  • Removing the headstock nameplate - 50, 51,
  • Spindle / quill bearing replacement - 97 (removal), 206 (installation)
  • Reconditioning bench tubes , rust removal and polishing - 100, 114, 119, 120
  • Recondition bench boards - 135, 157, 183, 315 (application method), 334(recipe correction!!) , 331 , 389 (the final product)
  • Painting - 136 (shows 5 different color ER's found on-line), 160, 161,
  • Different color ER paint jobs, including computer mock-ups - 136, 288, 294, 306 (Greenie color scheme!!) , 308
  • NICE cars!! - 153, 158,
  • Drill Chuck Repair - 200
  • Primed parts ready for top coat - 284 DO NOT use primer made to cover rust is the metal isn't rusty. See this post.
  • Electrolysis on aluminum parts - 387, 388
  • Snapped screw head repair - this thread, details from that thread
  • Electrical grounding motor and headstock - starts at 394
  • Speed changer - Frozen floating sheave - 456, 460
  • Miter gage indicator that I heated it to muchtrying to get the ball out. Here I restored it. Never give up!!
  • Final fully restored machine - 532, 533, 534
[color=black]Update 1-13-10 Decided to add the following thread / post index indicating where other frequently asked E / ER questions are. [/color]

[color=navy]OTHER INTERESTING ER RELATED THREADS / POST [/color]
The original 4-30-09 post follows:

[ATTACH]4299[/ATTACH]


I started a thread on this machine in the Community forum when I first purchased it. The thread is at http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=3422 . I brought the thread over here since it will soon go from a "Community" announcement to "Maintenance and Repair".


Although I haven't started working on it yet, I'd like to get a head start on what I need to do to evaluate the motor. When I purchased it, the guy said that it needed a motor. Might sound like a basic question with an obvious answer but.....what is the best way to evaluate if the motor is actually bad?

Is the quick on / off the prudent thing to do?

Curious to know typically how much it costs to repair a motor assuming someone burnt it up. Hopefully this question can be answered without knowing a lot of detail about what burnt up. I guess I am assuming the motor has to be rewound when they burn up?

Attachments

Img_5338MOD1.jpg
Img_5338MOD1.jpg (80.8 KiB) Viewed 18128 times

---

Mike
Sunny San Diego
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 309828, Born Oct '55, Acquired Feb '09, Born Again May '09
Mark 5 Jigsaw SN 65001, Born Aug '55
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 287942, Born Dec '54, Acquired Oct '09. Came with Magna Eng. Jointer SN 17792, Born Jun '54, awaiting restoration
ER10 - SN 72883, Born ~Sep '52, Acquired Apr '09, Restoration started Jun '09, Born Again Jan '10
ER jigsaw, awaiting restoration
Pro Planer SN??, Born ?, Acquired Mar '10

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#37201 by dusty » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:27 am

I attempted to get the motor for my Crafters Station rewound. I checked with three motor shops here in Tucson. When all was done, it was cheaper to buy a new motor.

The cheapest rewind was $350.00. This would have included new bearings and paint (if required).

DO NOT TOUCH THE MOTOR while doing what I am about to recommend. Clamp it to a non conductive work bench.

As for checking the motor - I would secure it on a bench, plug it into an outlet that is switchable and turn it on ( being prepared to turn it off immediately).

If it hums, you might have a chance of reasonable repair. If it kicks the breaker immediately, you just might need a rewind.

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#37207 by JPG » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:25 am

Do you have a Volt-ohm meter? If so check for leakage(low resistance) from line terminals to frame.

A momentary on/off will probably do as Dusty has suggested(hum/run slow/trip breaker). He left off "RUN NORMAL"! The trip breaker may not be doomsville IF the wiring is shorted rather than in the windings.

I would dismount it and bench test it by first Removing all external wiring(line cord and switch cord). Attach a good condition line cord(2 or three wire) and then 'try it'. Pay attention to how it is originally wired so as to replicate it.

I assume the linecord goes to the motor and the neutral(white) is attached to one motor input terminal. The hot(black) line cord wire should somehow be connected to one switch cord lead. The other(of 2) switch cord lead should attach to a second motor input terminal. The switch connects at the other end of the switch cord(SPST)(two terminals)(one lead each).

For bench testing the switch/cord may be omitted. If you use a 3 wire line cord, make sure there is no leakage to ground b4 testing with power. If there IS leakage, do not connect third wire (green) to motor frame and proceed as dusty suggested(DO NOT TOUCH) while energizing.

---

╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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#37208 by mickyd » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:30 am

dusty wrote:DO NOT TOUCH THE MOTOR while doing what I am about to recommend. Clamp it to a non conductive work bench.

As for checking the motor - I would secure it on a bench, plug it into an outlet that is switchable and turn it on ( being prepared to turn it off immediately).

If it hums, you might have a chance of reasonable repair. If it kicks the breaker immediately, you just might need a rewind.


dusty - Can I do the test with it still mounted in the machine? I haven't disassembled it yet. (committed not to work on it til greenie makes first speck of sawdust :D ). A hum would indicate just a bearing issue or could it go deeper than that?

---

Mike

Sunny San Diego

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 309828, Born Oct '55, Acquired Feb '09, Born Again May '09

Mark 5 Jigsaw SN 65001, Born Aug '55

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 287942, Born Dec '54, Acquired Oct '09. Came with Magna Eng. Jointer SN 17792, Born Jun '54, awaiting restoration

ER10 - SN 72883, Born ~Sep '52, Acquired Apr '09, Restoration started Jun '09, Born Again Jan '10

ER jigsaw, awaiting restoration

Pro Planer SN??, Born ?, Acquired Mar '10

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#37209 by heathicus » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:32 am

How far have you taken it apart at this point? Is it possible the motor is fine and the problem is something really simple like a bad switch, or a bad connection on the switch, or bad wiring in the plug or something like that?

With my 2nd ER (which I'm almost done restoring - and I'll post pics when I am done), although the motor seemed to work fine, when I took everything apart, I noticed one lead was connected to the switch by barely a strand of wire. A slight amount of tugging would have pulled it loose.

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#37212 by mickyd » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:44 am

mickyd comments in red

heathicus wrote:How far have you taken it apart at this point? Haven't' touched it yet. Is it possible the motor is fine and the problem is something really simple like a bad switch, or a bad connection on the switch, or bad wiring in the plug or something like that? I sure hope so

With my 2nd ER (which I'm almost done restoring - and I'll post pics when I am done)Ya, don't you hate it when people tease with photos before it's done :D , although the motor seemed to work fine, when I took everything apart, I noticed one lead was connected to the switch by barely a strand of wire. A slight amount of tugging would have pulled it loose.

---

Mike

Sunny San Diego

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 309828, Born Oct '55, Acquired Feb '09, Born Again May '09

Mark 5 Jigsaw SN 65001, Born Aug '55

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 287942, Born Dec '54, Acquired Oct '09. Came with Magna Eng. Jointer SN 17792, Born Jun '54, awaiting restoration

ER10 - SN 72883, Born ~Sep '52, Acquired Apr '09, Restoration started Jun '09, Born Again Jan '10

ER jigsaw, awaiting restoration

Pro Planer SN??, Born ?, Acquired Mar '10

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#37214 by JPG » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:51 am

mickyd wrote:dusty - Can I do the test with it still mounted in the machine? I haven't disassembled it yet. (committed not to work on it til greenie makes first speck of sawdust :D ). A hum would indicate just a bearing issue or could it go deeper than that?

Maybe/YES!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe iff the shaft turns stiffly/hard.

---

╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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#37217 by heathicus » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:16 am

mickyd wrote:Ya, don't you hate it when people tease with photos before it's done :D


Yes, I do. Those people that pull stunts like posting blurry pictures of their almost completed machines should be taken out behind the woodshed and... oh, wait, that was you wasn't it?? :D :D

In my case, I'm almost done and if I post pictures now, that's where I will stop. If I make myself wait until I am 100% done before posting pictures, I'll be more likely to finish it.

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#37226 by dusty » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:50 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Maybe/YES!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe iff the shaft turns stiffly/hard.


Certainly. The only purpose is to get a better idea of what is wrong with the motor.

If it hums, DON'T LEAVE POWER APPLIED but for just a few seconds. When it is humming, the motor is trying to turn and during that time is drawing more current than normal. Thus the possibility of smoke which could lean toward rewind.

Then you might try what a reasonable person would do. Pull the motor off and have it tested by a motor shop.

I pay to have work done as a last resort. EXAMPLE: The jointer cutter head that I just purchased. Only in that case, I created the "last resort".

---

"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.

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#37230 by mickyd » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:00 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Do you have a Volt-ohm meter? If so check for leakage(low resistance) from line terminals to frame...............



Yes on the meter question. I'll take a more techy 'schpanation on your second sentence. Do you mean with the unit plugged in, not running, test across where the wires terminate at the motor to the headstock or other convenient part of the unit? If this is correct, exactly what is it checking for? Leakage of juice from what and why and how and...?

---

Mike

Sunny San Diego

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 309828, Born Oct '55, Acquired Feb '09, Born Again May '09

Mark 5 Jigsaw SN 65001, Born Aug '55

Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 287942, Born Dec '54, Acquired Oct '09. Came with Magna Eng. Jointer SN 17792, Born Jun '54, awaiting restoration

ER10 - SN 72883, Born ~Sep '52, Acquired Apr '09, Restoration started Jun '09, Born Again Jan '10

ER jigsaw, awaiting restoration

Pro Planer SN??, Born ?, Acquired Mar '10

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