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13 posts 1 2

Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274667 by matthewscottaaron » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:55 pm

I am young, early 20's and beginning my woodworking hobby. I recently acquired a used Shopsmith 510 because of the versatility of the system, it's accessibility, and the massive amount of repair and maintenance resources from both Shopsmith company and Shopsmith community.
Last night I went over the basic maintenance requirements set out in the user manual. I oiled both sheaves and noticed my V belt was a tad farther than 1/8" loose. I went to adjust it via loosening the hex screw beneath the idler while turning the eccentric with a flathead screwdriver.
Somehow, I messed things up. Any attempts at fixing my mistake made things worse. While making adjustments I misaligned my V belt and it began rubbing against something and frayed slightly making a burning rubber smell with a bit of visual smoke when testing with the machine on. I have not run the machine since.
Currently my eccentric is far out of being flush with the housing. My V belt is out of alignment to the point that the sheaves/motor/belts can't turn.
I believe my eccentric is the newer version, however it is missing the nut that I see when looking at the part online. Any attempts to turn/tap the eccentric black in place aren't working, even after using a flathead screw driver to spread out where the housing protrudes down and allows the hex nut to lock it in place.

I'm definitely a newbie to this, I was just trying to properly maintain it!
The pictures attached show where I'm at now. Any help would be appreciated, I'm supposed to building a workbench right now!

Attachments

20200920_111442-min_3_24.jpg
Eccentric protruding.
20200920_111442-min_3_24.jpg (219.76 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
20200920_111452-min_4_24.jpg
Eccentric protruding - nut is missing, something is in there though.
20200920_111452-min_4_24.jpg (77.47 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
20200920_111458-min_3_24.jpg
Belt position to threads.
20200920_111458-min_3_24.jpg (49.98 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
20200920_111512-min_3_24.jpg
Belt against sheave.
20200920_111512-min_3_24.jpg (109.74 KiB) Viewed 1125 times

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274669 by DLB » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:53 pm

Welcome to both Shopsmith and the forum.

Basic understanding - The upper (poly-V in your case) is tightened via the eccentric to less than 1/8" play. The V-belt, lower, is tightened automatically as a function of the speed control by the spring on the motor shaft. The V-belt will normally feel loose and cannot be adjusted by feel or free play. At this point, all of your problem appears to me that your idler shaft is way out of position.

There should be a screw where you observed (you called it a nut) on a new eccentric. The screw's purpose is to retain the bearing from protruding beyond the eccentric. In your pic where you described it as 'something is there' I'm thinking the head of the screw is broken off. There should also be a screw and washer in that threaded hole above the eccentric, which keeps the eccentric from protruding as yours is. So, two screws, one retains the eccentric in the headstock and the other retains the bearing in the eccentric.

My suggestion is to either remove the V-belt or at least take it off of the motor pulley so you can get it out of the way. (It may be pinched between the two sheaves that form the motor pulley. You should be able to pull the floating sheave toward the end of the shaft compressing the spring to free it.) See your manual for how to remove it completely. With the belt out of the way and the speed set fairly high, you should be able to push the idler and eccentric back into position. Repairing the eccentric bushing first would be preferable if you have the tools to do that. Older eccentrics do not have that screw, so I don't know that it is absolutely necessary. IIRC I read something that said the new style is required with the new style idler, but I'm not 100% sure on this and don't know what feature makes it necessary.

Inspect your V-belt for damage and consider replacement. It should also be replaced if it is less than 1/2" wide at the wide part of the "V."

Good luck. Don't force anything. Come back here if there are any problems.

- David

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274670 by benmcn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:56 pm

You might review Shopsmith session #23. Right around the 9 minute mark Nick Engler has shows how to set the tension on the idler as well as a discussion on how to remove it. Additionally a you tube search of Jacob Anderson will provide several videos of how to tear down the headstock.

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274671 by JPG » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:57 pm

I JUST NOTICED THE ECCENTRIC HAS THE TAPPED HOLE, SO YOU DO INDEED HAVE A NEW VERSION OF THE ECCENTRIC SO PLEASE IGNORE THE STUFF BELOW THAT ONLY RELATES TO THE OLD VERSION.

1) Don't panic!

2) More 'issues' than you currently realize.

3)Terminology - Poly-v belt - motor belt - both are v-belts so different words need to be used to describe them.

4) IF the hex screw beneath the idler is the one accessed through the split in the headstock casting clamp, that should not have been messed with. It only secures the idler shaft bearing in the eccentric. Hopefully it is not protruding and jamming the eccentric.

5) You have the original version of the eccentric, NOT the newer version.

6) The drive sleeve/pulley does not appear to be positioned correctly. More about that later!

7) I am surprised that you appear to have a very old motor. It MAY be only 3/4 hp.

So the immediate problem is to get the eccentric and idler bearing correctly in position.

First task is to get the slot (the screwdriver slot) to 6 o'clock so as to get access to that hex screw. You likely have the eccentric cocked so it resists rotation. Take the motor belt OFF so as to eliminate it biasing the idler shaft etc. Then some GENTLE tapping to hopefully relieve the cocking. Then rotate the eccentric so you can 'see'(from the floor) THE BEARING RETAINING SET SCREW. Remove the set screw and VERIFY the idler bearing groove is directly in line with the det screw hole. Then reinstall the set screw and snug only(do NOT over tighten). The set screw should NOT be proud of the outer diameter of the eccentric

Now get the assembly pushed back into the headstock.

enough for now. More progress later.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274708 by chapmanruss » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:51 pm

Follow the advice given above. The picture below indicates where the corrections need to be made regarding the idler bearing, eccentric and the housing screw and nut locations.

matthewscottaaron.jpg
matthewscottaaron.jpg (155.73 KiB) Viewed 1032 times
If the screw was broken off in the eccentric than it will need to be replaced. It is the combination of these two screws and the cap screw with the nut that is needed to hold all the parts in place. Some of the information in JPG's post refers to earlier versions on the Mark 5 headstock so as JPG said ignore that. When in the correct position the bearing, eccentric and the headstock mounting point will all be flush as shown below. Sorry it is the only picture I have showing that but not a good one.

Headstock B e6.jpg
Headstock B e6.jpg (120.64 KiB) Viewed 1032 times

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274711 by JPG » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:27 pm

Starting over!

GENTLY tap the outer race of the bearing in an attempt to get it back into the eccentric. The tapped hole(you may have a broken off screw in there) holds a screw the head of which extends between the od of the bearing and the eccentric thus preventing the bearing etc. from exiting the eccentric (as you now have it).

The tapped hole at the top in the headstock casting should have a screw and washer that prevents the eccentric from exiting the headstock.

The cap screw and nut which tighten the clamp portion of the headstock casting places a slight squeeze on the eccentric which has a slit in the narrow portion and that squeeze is transferred to the idler shaft bearings. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THAT CAP SCREW!!! There should be a split lockwasher under the nut(which is best a square nut).

In any event do not force anything.

Replacing the screws may be a challenge as IIRC self threading screws were original.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274721 by matthewscottaaron » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:57 pm

Aha! I see now, I knew the eccentric needed to be flush with the headstock but I did not realize the bearing needed to be flush with the eccentric itself as well. The tapped hole does indeed have a threaded screw in it with a broken off head. I bought the unit used, everything seemed to have run fine maybe with my fiddling with the tension of the V belt put it out of whack in a way that I can't get back.

The hardware for the tapped hole at the top in the headstock casting along with the hardware for the cap screw I have, just removed for the purposes of these photos.

I plan on ordering new belts anyway, would it make sense to just get a new eccentric (#515616) that has a good screw as opposed to attempting to move this broken one and retapping the hole? How difficult is putting on this new eccentric? Probably easier than attempting to retap this tiny hole? I have watched Shop Sessions #23 and have a better idea of working with the headstock, however I believe in his demonstrations he has the older style eccentric.

I was able to get the V belt unstuck. Everything seems to be tensioned right, everything starts up and sounds just fine until I get to higher speeds (around speed setting R) the V belt begins rubbing rather harshly and there is a bad smell of rubber burning.

Also, thanks again everyone for all your help here this is why I chose the Shopsmith!
Last edited by matthewscottaaron on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274722 by JPG » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:00 pm

If you are not in any hurry and do not look forward to attempting removal of the broken screw, then by all means get a new one.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274726 by wa2crk » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:08 pm

As was said there should be a square headed bolt and nut through the tabs in the headstock under the eccentric. There should be a lock washer under the nut. You should only tighten the nut and bolt enough to flatten the lock washer NO MORE !!!!
Being a gorilla can break the tabs off the headstock casting. That is real trouble.
Bill V

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Re: Newbie with Belt and Idler problem.

#274727 by wa2crk » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:15 pm

JPG
His headstock seems to be a C version but I have never seen a C headstock with a nut on the motor shaft
Didn't they all have the C clip as the spring retainer.
Bill V

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