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Have you discovered the pointy set screw that positions the bearing within the eccentric?

The speed control parts(idler shaft/idler sheave/control sheave/quadrant gear can indeed prevent insertion of the eccentric fully into the headstock bore. I cannot emphasize enough to again recommend tearing the idler shaft and speed control completely down, lubricating etc. They are the most important parts that insure correct operation.

I think you are quite capable of succeeding in that and will not regret it later.

I am suspicious when I see 'butchering' evidence.

I understand your wanting to get it running ASAP, but I think prudence at this point is a good thing.

As for the quill bearings, you have not posted any pix that reveal you have removed the quill. I would not be concerned re which version the quill is at this point. I also question the advantage of the two bearing quill for 'typical' operations. It is only when runout becomes critical that it matters.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253640 by faultedgeologist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:09 pm

JPG wrote:Have you discovered the pointy set screw that positions the bearing within the eccentric?


Not yet. The bearing should just move with the eccentric, correct? My hammer taps on the screwdriver to loosen the ecc hopefully didn't damage it. Once loosened, it rotated with my climber's tendon strength. :D

JPG wrote:The speed control parts(idler shaft/idler sheave/control sheave/quadrant gear can indeed prevent insertion of the eccentric fully into the headstock bore. I cannot emphasize enough to again recommend tearing the idler shaft and speed control completely down, lubricating etc. They are the most important parts that insure correct operation.


So the reassembly process here would be to install the eccentric, tension the belt, tighten everything, then install the speed control I would assume. Can't the SC arm just be moved out of the way? What about that shaft rotating on the speed control arm - moly grease there?

JPG wrote:I think you are quite capable of succeeding in that and will not regret it later. I am suspicious when I see 'butchering' evidence. I understand your wanting to get it running ASAP, but I think prudence at this point is a good thing.


My preference is things running in perfect order by my wrench. This will give me time to plan the project better. The squealing banshee in my garage just sounds terrible! I like fresh bearings, and I've cut my teeth on some tens of crusty bike restorations. I would also like to see the speed control dial axis straightened; methinks this causes part of the rotation issue.

JPG wrote:As for the quill bearings, you have not posted any pix that reveal you have removed the quill. I would not be concerned re which version the quill is at this point. I also question the advantage of the two bearing quill for 'typical' operations. It is only when runout becomes critical that it matters.


While there, it would be my preference to reduce the tolerance error to 1/5th what it was. The problem is I still don't know what model I have per the textured gray paint being 85+ modern, but SN being 1981 (2 diff articles). I'll know by 5am when the wine bottle is empty. ;)

Thanks JPG for continuing to assist me on my journey. You are the Patton of KZ Riders forum, a foundation for the creative and productive.

EDIT: Time to build a parts list for a single order (ideal but unlikely;-). Any minor things that make a major difference? I've seen a few upgrade posts about splined connectors, etc.

V-belt
Speed belt
Planer sharpening jig! America! Blank yeah!
Conical sander and papers
Bearing kits **** Is there upper, mid, lower? If rebuilding, I don't want to do this again. Until morning pictures...

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V belt
Poly-v belt
Planer sharpening jig
Conical disk/papers

Now SS does not sell the bearings(we are not competent to change bearings :rolleyes: ).

You really need to determine if the wire loop and roll pin are in the bottom of the motor pan. If they are not there, you will need to add a cintrol sheave to your order list.

Yes backing the quadrant gear away will help allow deeper insertion of the eccentric into the headstock. Getting the belt loose in the idler pulley will help that also. Anything attached to the idler shaft can cause interference that prevents full insertion. You may need to ascertain that the eccentric set screw is not involved in that. Considering all else you have discovered, I think verifying the set screw is properly installed is prudent.

Beware of those climber's tendons. We tend to refer to that as gorilla tactics(not good). Especially true with the eccentric bearing set screw(just snug).

I will post a link that you may find helpful in the next post.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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viewtopic.php?p=40961#post40961

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253661 by faultedgeologist » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 am

Disassembly almost complete. It looks like all the guts need replaced. I got the broken eccentric safety bolt drilled, tap set, no small tap arms to turn it. Hardware store again, keep fingers crossed.

As for those pins you referenced, I got a bunch of muck out

Thanks for the continued help. Let's get this list complete.

ORDER LIST
V-belt
PolyV-belt
Eccentric
Idler shaft/bearings

Pictures:
15 - the speed assembly has a badly worn metal sleeve that looks like it should be replaceable but isn't...

16 - eccentric looks like it was beaten inside and out, maybe to get better traction since they positioned it at 2:00? Idler pulley bearings are crunchy anyway, so new eccentric and idler

17 - two bearings on the upper assembly. Are these the bearings that SS doesn't sell? They need replaced. I was unsure how to get it out from here - do I take the bearings off or just continue to press it out?

18 - quill looks alright. I'm assuming this is the single bearing quill. some day you will be replaced... today's bill is going to be too big.

19 - the dust and pins from inside the case. Unfortunately it all went in the trash. I can dig it back out, but they appeared mangled. I needed these to re-use the eccentric and idler shaft?

Finding parts on their site can be fun. The web service bulletins they list aren't linked to the parts.

Attachments

shopsmith-mkv-15.JPG
speed assembly worn?
shopsmith-mkv-15.JPG (365.95 KiB) Viewed 1089 times
shopsmith-mkv-16.JPG
eccentric and seat both look beat.
shopsmith-mkv-16.JPG (287.15 KiB) Viewed 1089 times
shopsmith-mkv-17.JPG
upper assembly bearings need replaced
shopsmith-mkv-17.JPG (312.2 KiB) Viewed 1089 times
shopsmith-mkv-18.JPG
quill
shopsmith-mkv-18.JPG (343.57 KiB) Viewed 1089 times
shopsmith-mkv-19.JPG
debris including some pins from inside the case
shopsmith-mkv-19.JPG (443.52 KiB) Viewed 1089 times

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I would replace the entire speed control, but keep the old one for spare parts. The damage to the quadrant gear is because the bearing loop(yes you did find what was left of it in the motor pan as well as the missing roll pin) went south and allowed the center race and pin on the control sheave to rotate against the wear plate('sleeve'). The pivot legs are splayed as well(fixable for use as a spare). The knob shaft is boogered and IIRC you stated the shaft is also bent.

SS only sells the drive sleeve assembly as a unit. The bearings are however replaced(easy if you have a bearing puller...) Yes it 'slips' out completely, but you have to overcome crud and misalignment.

The crud in the quill rack is typical. Best to clean it out occasionally. I would only use powered graphite on any internal gearing or threads. oil/grease is a dust/crud attractant.

I think(IIRC?) the loop and pin are available separately and you MUST have them. Do check the control sheave bearing. Available also from SS only as part of the control sheave. Take a hard look at the key on the shaft for wear. Consider the idler shaft to be a Chinese puzzle re removing the key and idler sheave.

BTW the idler shaft has the fixed idler sheave and he control sheave which make up the idler pulley.

AND the motor shaft has the fixed fan sheave and floating sheave which make up the motor pulley.

Lastly, the drive sleeve bearings are both 25 x 52 x15 mm (6205zz) I recommend the rubber seals.

Will be gone for a few hours.

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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253666 by faultedgeologist » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:04 am

How much is that new power center? :eek:

Pictures:
20 - I see what you are referring to now. The bearing is seized at the end of the sleeved

21 - I used a Park Tool spanner wrench to separate the plastic sleeve from the splined shaft. The bearings are shot as expected.

I also measured the single bearing quill play at 3mm on the splined shaft, which was about 0.6mm at the chuck side, and probably 1.2mm at the end of the chuck, etc. This system surely counts on the other two drive bearings and the fit of the sleeve and quill shaft, but it's time to think about the total cost of this vs a new headstock. :eek:

22 - the quill drive gear is slightly chewed up.

23 - Runner sleeves of the headstock are striated, packed with belt dust.

Attachments

shopsmith-mkv-20-frozen-sheave-bearing.jpg
20 - frozen sheave bearing, damaged quadrant
shopsmith-mkv-20-frozen-sheave-bearing.jpg (404.81 KiB) Viewed 1059 times
shopsmith-mkv-21-drive-sleeve.jpg
21 - drive sleeve
shopsmith-mkv-21-drive-sleeve.jpg (428.16 KiB) Viewed 1059 times
shopsmith-mkv-22.JPG
quill drive gear
shopsmith-mkv-22.JPG (401.13 KiB) Viewed 1059 times
shopsmith-mkv-23.JPG
head shaft sleeves
shopsmith-mkv-23.JPG (332.4 KiB) Viewed 1059 times
Last edited by faultedgeologist on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253667 by thunderbirdbat » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:55 am

The link to Service Parts can be found under the Products drop down under Service. Choose the product that needs the parts then choose either the exploded parts diagrams or parts list to order from. Clicking on the part number on the diagram will bring up the part number description and option to order. Also they have a page for the most commonly ordered parts. https://www.shopsmith.com/service/mostfrequentlyorderedparts.htm I believe I also saw rebuild kits for different head stocks on ebay but did not pay too much attention to what they included or price.

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Brenda

1998 510 upgraded to a 520, upgraded to power pro with double tilt and lift assist.
1998 bandsaw
2016 beltsander
jointer
overarm pin router

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Prices here.

http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/purchaseNB.htm

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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.

Bob

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253684 by faultedgeologist » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:43 pm



$2.3k for just the PowerPro headstock?!? Time to get rebuilding...

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