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14 posts 1 2

10ER Double Tilt idea

#258704 by larryhrockisland » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:08 pm

I had an idea for a way to have double tilt on a 10ER without modifying any shopsmith parts and I had too much time at my pc and it's raining. It's based on plans in Popular Mechanics, Aug 1967, pp148. You can read it on Google Books if you haven't seen yet.
https://books.google.com/books?id=rtMDA ... th&f=false

Comments and critiques welcome! Do you think it will be top heavy and want to tip over? I thing the 10ER will run at 6800 rpm with the factory pulleys and no speed changer.

Attachments

Shopsmith 10ER double tilt2.pdf
Changed the font, hopefully better.
(111.16 KiB) Downloaded 316 times
Last edited by larryhrockisland on Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Larry Hargrove
Rock Island, Ok
1981 Mark V 500>510>520(98922)
19?? Mark V 500>Power Pro headstock 556176 06-17-11 factory exchange program original serial unknown
1957 Mark V 500 (350389)
1953 10ER
Another 10ER
Bandsaw 2012 Jointer 2012
Bandsaw, Jointer, other goodies
Craftsman table saw, Delta 46-460 Midi lathe

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258705 by JPG » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:13 pm

larryhrockisland wrote:I had an idea for a way to have double tilt on a 10ER without modifying any shopsmith parts and I had too much time at my pc and it's raining. It's based on plans in Popular Mechanics, Aug 1967, pp148. You can read it on Google Books if you haven't seen yet.
https://books.google.com/books?id=rtMDA ... th&f=false

Comments and critiques welcome! Do you think it will be top heavy and want to tip over? I thing the 10ER will run at 6800 rpm with the factory pulleys and no speed changer.


Well it looks good for a Mark 2. Now where ya gonna get bench tubes for a 10?

Whoops - missed the second link. Yes I would be concerned re top weight in drill press mode. I would make sure the footprint is large enough. interesting idea. What do you intend to use for hinges?

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258706 by larryhrockisland » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:24 pm

Leave the original 10 mounted to the original bench boards. Mount that entire unit to the new shorter bench with the original leg set mounted to the new bench. The original 10 would be 1.5" taller. The original 10, bench and all, tips up to the left but when down the drill press works like always. Does that help? Can't say much for my descriptive skills...

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Larry Hargrove
Rock Island, Ok
1981 Mark V 500>510>520(98922)
19?? Mark V 500>Power Pro headstock 556176 06-17-11 factory exchange program original serial unknown
1957 Mark V 500 (350389)
1953 10ER
Another 10ER
Bandsaw 2012 Jointer 2012
Bandsaw, Jointer, other goodies
Craftsman table saw, Delta 46-460 Midi lathe

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258707 by larryhrockisland » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:28 pm

Whoops - missed the second link. Yes I would be concerned re top weight in drill press mode. I would make sure the footprint is large enough. interesting idea. What do you intend to use for hinges?[/quote]

I wouldn't think the drill press mode would be any different than original, it pivots on its base like always. I was worried about the under table setup wanting to pull unit over and wondered if the plywood legs would need to extend farther left?

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Larry Hargrove
Rock Island, Ok
1981 Mark V 500>510>520(98922)
19?? Mark V 500>Power Pro headstock 556176 06-17-11 factory exchange program original serial unknown
1957 Mark V 500 (350389)
1953 10ER
Another 10ER
Bandsaw 2012 Jointer 2012
Bandsaw, Jointer, other goodies
Craftsman table saw, Delta 46-460 Midi lathe

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258722 by JPG » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:13 am

Closer look makes the hinge ? moot.

I think the legs (left) should extend beyond the CG of the 'lowered' headstock etc.. The drawing does seem a bit short.

Are you sure re 6800 rpm without SC? I think 2x motor rpm is correct.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258732 by jsburger » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:36 pm

larryhrockisland wrote:Whoops - missed the second link. Yes I would be concerned re top weight in drill press mode. I would make sure the footprint is large enough. interesting idea. What do you intend to use for hinges?


I wouldn't think the drill press mode would be any different than original, it pivots on its base like always. I was worried about the under table setup wanting to pull unit over and wondered if the plywood legs would need to extend farther left?[/quote]

I don't think there should be a problem. You still have the full length original bench just as in the drill press mode. Plus when tilted left you have the added length of the tilt assembly on the floor and tilted left the weight is much lower.

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John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258734 by JPG » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:59 pm

Height does not affect tipping until the CG is beyond the pivot.

Ignoring operator induced forces.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258737 by larryhrockisland » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:05 pm

JPG wrote:Closer look makes the hinge ? moot.

I think the legs (left) should extend beyond the CG of the 'lowered' headstock etc.. The drawing does seem a bit short.

Are you sure re 6800 rpm without SC? I think 2x motor rpm is correct.


By moot do you mean pretty much any hinge system would work? I agree, I just have commercial grade 4.5x4.5 butt hinges on hand.

I pretty much just lined up the end of the plywood extension with the end of the existing bench so as to keep the footprint about the same. That put the left end 5" beyond center line of the way tubes. Another 3" would get it about to the center of the spindle. I wouldn't know how to figure the CG. I assumed (I know, never do that) that the motor and headstock pretty much cancelled each other out and the weight would be down the way tubes so to speak, but I don't know any of the weights.

You are correct, I misread the owners manual, it is 6800 with the SC.

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Larry Hargrove
Rock Island, Ok
1981 Mark V 500>510>520(98922)
19?? Mark V 500>Power Pro headstock 556176 06-17-11 factory exchange program original serial unknown
1957 Mark V 500 (350389)
1953 10ER
Another 10ER
Bandsaw 2012 Jointer 2012
Bandsaw, Jointer, other goodies
Craftsman table saw, Delta 46-460 Midi lathe

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258744 by chapmanruss » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:23 pm

Interesting idea for the Model 10's.

For those wanting a double tilt Mark 2 there is a different way than building a wood "Mark VII" bench as shown in the article. We had a discussion about this a while back.https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/beginning-woodworking-f6/just-bought-a-mark-2-t21811-s10.html It requires getting a second headrest end to replace the base/arm side and shorting the way tubes 3-1/2" to move the headrest end inward to the same distance from the end of the bench as the base end. For those with wood bench "tubes" you can replace the wood with 3-1/2" longer stock to move the bench end out so it the same on both ends. It will than work similar to the new Mark 7 for double tilt.

Larry said
You are correct, I misread the owners manual, it is 6800 with the SC.

Yes, the highest speed without a speed changer, a different RPM motor or changing pulleys is 3450 RPM's or double the motor speed. Below is a PDF of the 7 speeds with the stock pulleys for the Model 10's.
Table of Speeds Model 10s.pdf
(182.91 KiB) Downloaded 298 times
EDIT: This is a chart I created a while back. It uses the same idea as the Mark 2 for different speeds by changing the pulley match-ups.
Last edited by chapmanruss on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Russ

Mark V 520 S/N 09-11-01 completely upgraded to Mark 7, with all SPT's & more.
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ Shopsmith metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: 10ER Double Tilt idea

#258745 by larryhrockisland » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:58 pm

chapmanruss wrote:Yes, the highest speed without a speed changer, a different RPM motor or changing pulleys is 3450 RPM's or double the motor speed. Below is a PDF of the 7 speeds with the stock pulleys for the Model 10's.Table of Speeds Model 10s.pdf


Thanks for the chart. I didn't have that one.

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Larry Hargrove
Rock Island, Ok
1981 Mark V 500>510>520(98922)
19?? Mark V 500>Power Pro headstock 556176 06-17-11 factory exchange program original serial unknown
1957 Mark V 500 (350389)
1953 10ER
Another 10ER
Bandsaw 2012 Jointer 2012
Bandsaw, Jointer, other goodies
Craftsman table saw, Delta 46-460 Midi lathe

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