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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#272841 by chapmanruss » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:55 pm

Today I thought about the Carriages for the Model 10’s. The thing I was wondering about was when did the change from version 2 to 3 occur. We know when the change from version 1 to 2 occurred since it went from double wedge way tube locks to single wedge way tube locks just like the Headstock. That was April 1951. The picture below shows all three versions of the Carriage. I took this picture of the bottom because it best shows the differences. Version 1 and 2 are the same except double or single wedges. Version 3 has less mass by having thinner walls and trimmed out areas of the walls. It weighs less than versions 1 and 2 but I neglected to weigh them while I had them out for the picture. This is the only one I have seen of the version 3 Carriage and I do not know the serial number of the 10ER it came off of. So, when was the 3rd version used on the Model 10ER? The March 1953 Manual lists the carriage as part number C 2349 which is the newer part number, post November 1951, for version 2. The version 3 Carriage I have is part number D 2349. Those of you with later Model 10ER’s may have the answer.

103-2 and D 2349 Carriages labeled.jpg
103-2 and D 2349 Carriages labeled.jpg (163.16 KiB) Viewed 1462 times
It should be noted that even though the part numbers changed in November 1951 many of the parts still had the old numbers cast in them for some time until new castings were made.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273042 by chapmanruss » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 pm

The Jig Saw made for the Model 10E and 10ER was introduced around 1950. It was first shown (that I have found) in one of the Rev. A Manuals and an early 1950 Accessories Catalog. It was Model No. A 34, item number 134-1X and after November 1951 item number 11 100. It was the first major accessory for the Shopsmith 5 in 1 tool. There are two versions that were made with the second coming out by early 1951. The only difference between the two was the Lower Frame Assembly, it’s cover plate and 4 or 2 screws for the cover plate. All other parts were the same except two versions of the Table Insert which appears to have changed at the same time as the Jig Saw itself. Those were the closed Key Hole and the later open Key Hole Inserts. This accessory did not have serial numbers so it is difficult to tell how many Jig Saws were made. The Jig Saw was discontinued with the Model 10ER and replaced by the 18” Magna Jig Saw Add-a-Tool (later known as SPT) for the Mark 5 which could be mounted on the Model 10’s with the Power Mount Adapter Kit.

The original Lower Frame Assembly was, unfortunately, hollow throughout the frame. Sawdust could enter the frame through openings and make its way to the gear box area. The later version corrected this and added some belt protection too. I have owned 3 and so far, restored and sold 2 of the original versions and found sawdust in the gear boxes. The third is disassembled and awaiting restoration. I have restored 5 of the later version Jig Saw. Of course, restoring these presents the same problem of finding parts as when restoring the Model 10’s themselves. I have even fabricated parts or found alternate parts when restoring them. For one I made a replacement Leather Pump Seal which was pretty easy. Making a replacement Sabre Saw Rest was a little bit of a challenge not having a metal lathe.

One of the features of this Jig Saw and the later 18” Magna Jig Saw was that the Upper Frame or arm could be removed to allow using it as a Tool Mounted Sabre Saw. That is a feature not available with the Scroll Saw. The big difference between the Jig Saw and the Scroll Saw is how the blades are held. The Jig Saw has a spring tension in the upper arm are whereas the Scroll Saw holds the blade in tension between the arms which move in unison. Below are the two versions of the Jig Saw Model A 34.

Jig Saw V1.jpg
Original Jig Saw for the Model 10's
Jig Saw V1.jpg (84.53 KiB) Viewed 1322 times


Jig Saw V2.jpg
Later Jig Saw version
Jig Saw V2.jpg (116.42 KiB) Viewed 1322 times
Before anyone comments, No, that is not rust on the mounting bolt. It is a brass spacer (not original) for using the Jig Saw without the upper arm attached for Sabre Saw mode.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273589 by DOWeaver » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:08 pm

Hi all: I could be the guy from yahoo groups ,with the blank back plate? the X on the mystery plate,in the post, I dont think it is a demo plate that someone stamped. reason , if you look at the letter M on the blank demo plates , both I have seen , are inverted Ws look close .. Just one thing to make the X more interesting.. DOWeaver indianapolis Indiana

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1992 Mark V with 510 upgrades All SPT MIB II
194? 10 E Demo waiting Refurbishing Teresa All Parts and extras
195? 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing S+B
Early 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing SN#45246
Late 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing to be SN#47982

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273633 by chapmanruss » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:21 pm

If you are referring to the post I made on page 3, I was guessing on how the person got a blank plate to put a serial number with an X prefix on a plate. If the blank Logo Plate on the back of the demo headstocks all had the letter W upside down on them than that would not have been the source of a blank plate. X5010 is the only X prefix serial number I have ever seen. It was an early 10ER for sale here in Oregon with a serial number much lower than it should have for a 10ER with it's version of the headstock. Unfortunately it remains a mystery.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273637 by DOWeaver » Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:59 pm

Yes mystery indeed With putting the demo plates out of the mix. Thanks for all you do. DOW

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1992 Mark V with 510 upgrades All SPT MIB II
194? 10 E Demo waiting Refurbishing Teresa All Parts and extras
195? 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing S+B
Early 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing SN#45246
Late 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing to be SN#47982

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273638 by DOWeaver » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:04 pm

Just for grins and giggles Have you seen plates that have the Ms I am talking about ,used for front plates. The Ms are in the words Model and magna DOW

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1992 Mark V with 510 upgrades All SPT MIB II
194? 10 E Demo waiting Refurbishing Teresa All Parts and extras
195? 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing S+B
Early 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing SN#45246
Late 1951 10 ER SS waiting Refurbishing to be SN#47982

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#273686 by chapmanruss » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:03 pm

Yes, the early 10E Logo/Serial Number Plate has the M in Magna and Model that look like an upside down W. It appears only on the very early ones with serial numbers below 18000.

10E 1077 Portland OR RLC.jpg
10E 1077 Portland OR RLC.jpg (57.46 KiB) Viewed 841 times
The Plate with the X in the serial number has normal M's in Magna and Model. It is a Model ER plate with the R prefix painted on the plate followed by stamped X5010.

10ER RX5010.jpg
10ER RX5010.jpg (137.6 KiB) Viewed 841 times

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#274266 by chapmanruss » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:50 pm

I was looking at ebay the other day and something caught my eye. It was the wood extension table, bar and bracket assembly from an early Model 10E. What I noticed is something I had noticed on S/N 1033. The holes in the wood for the bolts/screws to hold the bar and wood to the bracket were the same diameter as the holes for the extension pins that hold the fence in place. These larger holes do not allow the bolts/screws that holds the bar to the bracket to also hold the wood table to the assembly. Also, the bar with it includes three smaller holes to attach the bar to the wood with smaller wood screws from the bottom. It is something I first noticed when I restored S/N 1077 but that 10E did not have the original wood extension table with it when I purchased it. A new replacement wood extension table was made using a later wood extension table I have as a pattern. The later wood extension tables have smaller countersunk holes for a flat head screw to go through the wood, the bar and the bracket to hold the assembly together thereby eliminating the need for the three smaller screws to hold the wood to the bar. What I thought may have been a change made to those holes in the wood table from S/N 1033 by a previous owner appears to have been original. I have noticed the original wood extension tables that have come with 10E’s I have purchased are generally pretty beat up and sometimes have extra holes drilled in them. The picture below is the two versions I have of the Wood Extension Tables. The top board is the later one and the lower one is the early version. Only the two pairs of holes at the top edge (in the picture) are the original holes. Others have been added for whatever reasons the previous owners wanted them.

10E Wood Extension Table - both versions r.jpg
10E Wood Extension Table - both versions r.jpg (243.59 KiB) Viewed 407 times

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#274268 by JPG » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:52 pm

10e ext table top.jpg
10e ext table top.jpg (194.78 KiB) Viewed 388 times

10E ext table bottom.jpg
10E ext table bottom.jpg (169.97 KiB) Viewed 388 times

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

#274295 by chapmanruss » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:45 pm

JPG,

Are those the original boards? If so, they are in the best shape I have seen any of them in. The pictures shows a complete assembly for the Wood Extension Table and what I was referring to as the later one. On the bottom view picture it shows how the board, bracket and bar can have slightly different angles. This allows aligning both the fence and wood table to the saw blade. The fence attaches to the extension table using the posts and wing nuts.

When I get a chance I will have to put an early one back together for a picture to post. I will add that here in an edit when done.

EDIT: Here is the early Wood Extension Table Assembly.

10E Extension Table Assembly.jpg
10E Extension Table Assembly.jpg (220.32 KiB) Viewed 175 times
I said above in the original post about the Extension Tables that there were three wood screws that held the bar to the wood but after closely looking at two of this assemblies boards it appears that only the two outside screws were actually ever used. Neither board has a hole for the center screw.
Last edited by chapmanruss on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters. Has Speed Changer, Model 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. On bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.

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