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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273022 by JPG » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:00 pm

NEVER attempt to turn the speed knob towards slow unless the pulleys are rotating(running or manually rotated).

If humming(I assume 'trains' means that), you need to determine why the internal start switch is not closed(allowing ac to flow to the start circuit).

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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273025 by PeterCox » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:21 am

Sorry for the poorly explained situation. When I went back and read my post I realized my rushing to post before checking really didn't help.
I have edited my post in the quote below. It should give you a better idea of the situation.


PeterCox wrote:Hello everyone. I just finished rewiring to the terminals in the headstock the wires were too close to the pork chop and the insulation was also disintegrating. That seemed to work well, when I turned it on everything ran like a dream. So now that the power was restored and functional I moved onto the next item on my list.
I performed a high speed adjustment. I followed the Saw Dust video step by step. Unfortunately now the pulleys won't move. Calling in the reinforcements again. I flip on the power switch and it makes a humming noise and you can tell it wants to turn but is stuck for some reason. Any ideas?


I need a win guys. Haha



Peter


I hope that tells the story better.

Thanks!

---

-Inherited my father's 83' Mark V 500 W/Band Saw.
-New to the system and just getting it back up and running after many years of sitting.
-3rd Gen. on this Shopsmith.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273029 by JPG » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:36 am

Same answer. viewtopic.php?p=273022#p273022

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273031 by br549 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:15 am

One question that might help us better understand:

In what position is the speed control now? If it is still set to "FAST", then with power OFF and machine UNPLUGGED, manually rotate the quill (attach sanding disk or lathe face plate to make it easier to turn), while SLOWLY rotating Speed Control back down to "SLOW".

If motor still doesn't want to start, then likely sawdust inside the motor is preventing the centrifugal switch from closing and activating the start winding. Here is a link to my experience checking and getting switch to work. Mine is a GE 1-1/8 hp motor .... other versions will be slightly different.

maintenance-and-repair-f10/ge-1-1-8-motor-hums-pops-fuse--t17624.html

Usually just opening up one end of the motor and blowing out the dust is all that is required.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273076 by PeterCox » Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:13 pm

Thanks JPG and br549 for your advice.

I took the motor cover down to find that the ground wire had broken free from the nut holding it to the motor.

I have everything back and it runs again. And I'm back to my old problem of the speed knob turning to fast well, but not wanting to go toward slow. I also have the high pitched noise I mentioned before I started playing electrician.

I have a video of the sound I will put a link on this page as soon as I have one.

https://youtu.be/xP-Ykz19hEs

I feel like you guys just gave me a gift helping me get back on track.


Thanks!

---

-Inherited my father's 83' Mark V 500 W/Band Saw.
-New to the system and just getting it back up and running after many years of sitting.
-3rd Gen. on this Shopsmith.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273083 by br549 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:06 am

Thanks for posting the video ... while I don't have a definite possible cause or solution, I'm sure someone else will. My only guess at this stage would be dry bearing(s) or sheaves needing more oil.

The button bearing on the end of the control sheave needs to move freely. With the Shopsmith in drill press position, have you lubed the hole in control sheave shaft well, and let the Shopsmith remain in vertical position overnight to let oil run down to the button bearing?

The floating sheave (at the motor) might also need lubing again. With power OFF and UNPLUGGED, you should be able to pry the floating sheave apart from it's mate by hand and compress the large spring while doing so. A sluggish floating sheave will contribute to hard turning of the speed control knob towards "SLOW".

As far as speed control action, it is normal for it to move easier towards "FAST" than towards "SLOW". When moving to "SLOW", I grasp the entire speed control dial (like a peanut butter jar lid) and dial it back slowly ... using the small protruding handle alone makes it even harder to turn.

One other observation: In you video, the Poly-V belt does not appear centered, which I believe it should be.

Aside from the ground wire being loose, did you remove the motor from the headstock and open it up to blow out dust? Or did just removing the screws that held motor pan to motor somehow get past the humming but not starting problem? I am no electrical wizard, but I would not think a loose ground wire would alone have been the reason for the humming but not starting problem.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273084 by PeterCox » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:56 am

br549 wrote:Thanks for posting the video ... while I don't have a definite possible cause or solution, I'm sure someone else will. My only guess at this stage would be dry bearing(s) or sheaves needing more oil.


Yeah I have had the dust cover off a long time now trying to solve all the problems. So it very well may need that oil again.

br549 wrote:The button bearing on the end of the control sheave needs to move freely. With the Shopsmith in drill press position, have you lubed the hole in control sheave shaft well, and let the Shopsmith remain in vertical position overnight to let oil run down to the button bearing?

The floating sheave (at the motor) might also need lubing again. With power OFF and UNPLUGGED, you should be able to pry the floating sheave apart from it's mate by hand and compress the large spring while doing so. A sluggish floating sheave will contribute to hard turning of the speed control knob towards "SLOW".problem.


I have oiled that part, but that wasn't how the Saw Dust video went. Now I have better info to oil it again and do that instead.

br549 wrote:As far as speed control action, it is normal for it to move easier towards "FAST" than towards "SLOW". When moving to "SLOW", I grasp the entire speed control dial (like a peanut butter jar lid) and dial it back slowly ... using the small protruding handle alone makes it even harder to turn.


That is reassuring. And after I oil everything it may not have to work so hard.

br549 wrote:One other observation: In you video, the Poly-V belt does not appear centered, which I believe it should be.


Good catch! I'll fix that ASAP.

br549 wrote:Aside from the ground wire being loose, did you remove the motor from the headstock and open it up to blow out dust? Or did just removing the screws that held motor pan to motor somehow get past the humming but not starting problem? I am no electrical wizard, but I would not think a loose ground wire would alone have been the reason for the humming but not starting problem.


I didn't remove the motor from the headstock, after I got all the screws out I saw the dust. I blew that out, and then saw the wire. So it may well have been the dust that was the issue like you said. It had more in it than I would have expected.


Thanks br549!

I have a few more good steps to take now.

---

-Inherited my father's 83' Mark V 500 W/Band Saw.
-New to the system and just getting it back up and running after many years of sitting.
-3rd Gen. on this Shopsmith.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273087 by JPG » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:05 am

The poly-v belt has 9 ribs. The drive sleeve has 13 grooves. The important thing is the poly-v belt rides 'flat' against the drive sleeve pulley.(Not raised up on the front or rear edge due to misalignment). I believe that typically occurs with the front rib of the belt riding in the third groove from the front(quill). Yes that 'centers' it.

Yours appears to be in the fourth groove.

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273089 by PeterCox » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:26 am

Thanks JPG!

I took the tension off of the belt, and centered it on the correct goove.

I have also oiled it according to br549's recommendations. It's now in the drill press position letting the oil get down where it needs to be.

Thanks!

---

-Inherited my father's 83' Mark V 500 W/Band Saw.
-New to the system and just getting it back up and running after many years of sitting.
-3rd Gen. on this Shopsmith.

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Re: Just Inherited a Mark V 500

#273091 by JPG » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:27 pm

Not yet mentioned(IIRC) is have you tried running it(squeak test) with the motor belt disconnected(motor only running)? It may be caused by motor bearings. Also does the noise change with speed setting?

---

╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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