US Government is About to Change Table Saws FOREVER!

[RFGuy]

We agree on that! ;-)

Then I would say "You have not made the point" and probably never will .

Exactly. In this moment, I think of the famous quote "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So, I choose to quit.

Oh how interesting to observe how some individuals claim to be open minded and seek others understanding but when they fail to convince others decide to say further conversation is pointless. Somebody is being verbose with a deaf ear.

However I also perceive a vast divide between degree of knowledge of the subject(s) being discussed by the individuals involved.

The major point of 'disagreement' is I believe as has already been alluded to - Legal sets the rules, but ethical and/or fair is only in the minds of the of the 'perpetrator" and the 'victim'.

BTW I hate analogies(especially those picked to make a narrow point regarding them). There are simply too many variances between the supposedly analogous examples to lead to a precise conveyance of understanding.

Ya getting way off the initial subject, but, it has evolved to the present.

I ignored moral above as I see it as a subset of ethical. Ethical relates to business, moral relates to personal.

JMHO

JPG,

I do believe I have been open minded and tried to express my views with thoughtfulness and reason here. I believe I have listened to all sides and I understand them. At least one person here, either isn't listening or doesn't understand my post at the link below. Thus I said I quit after their response above because this has become insanity. One doesn't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you. I understand how business operates and patent licensing, forced or not, is NORMAL. Using the ITC, CPSC, SEC or any other government agency to gain competitive advantage in the marketplace is NORMAL. I choose NOT to continue to discuss and debate because I see this clearly and it will continue this way until this planet changes. It is NOT my responsibility to continue to try to help anyone here to understand this. I truly hope all of you find the utopia that you seek. I am done here. Goodbye.

viewtopic.php?p=314261#p314261


P.S. How were Shopsmith business tactics in fending off the Taiwan clone machines being imported any different to what SawStop has done???

[algale]

Three things never to talk about at a dinner party: religion, politics, and Saw Stop.

[HopefulSSer]

At least one person here, either isn't listening or doesn't understand my post at the link below.

I was done as well but since this is clearly directed at me, I'll post one last rebuttal. The "points" you've raised in this thread have been rife with absurd generalizations, seemingly willful misinterpretations, false analogies, and straw men. You say I'm not listening but I invite you to look in a mirror.

Cheers!

[docmirror]

I don't know if anyone caught it along in the thread, but sawstop just offered up their patent to the public;

https://www.sawstop.com/news/sawstop-to ... able-saws/

As for the requirements set by the CPSC, or any other US bureaucracy, I think this is a horrible interference by a govt on it's public. I may be in the minority on that opinion.

[edflorence]

Up to this point, I have been following this thread without commenting, since I don't have the knowledge of either business practices or patent law that would permit me to contribute meaningfully. But I am interested in the subject, since I can't see how Shopsmith could re-engineer the Mark to comply with any requirement to implement the technology. That aside, though, when I followed the link that Docmirror provided, I found that SawStop's offer to share their patent is conditional upon the government imposing the "active injury mitigation technology" rule. Here is what SawStop says in their offer:

"To that end, SawStop is prepared to dedicate this ‘840 patent to the public upon the effective date of a rule requiring active injury mitigation technology on all table saws."

This leaves me scratching my head...how will such a move benefit SawStop? I know it must, but I can't see how giving away a patent can make sense as a business move. Anybody got any ideas?

[HopefulSSer]

As I noted when I posted the link to Sawstop's press release, "Dedicate to the public" sounds like a phrase empty of legal content. I'm happy to be proven wrong but if they mean to give it away would they not say something like "license for free" or "place in the public domain" -- phrases that have a bit more clarity? Remember that this is a company founded by patent lawyers. They won't be careless with language. Also, according to the google patents page for this patent, it is expired. Meaning that it no longer has any legal force at all and "dedicating it to the public" is a perfectly empty gesture.

Shopsmith patented the feather guard, push stick, and push block they sell in their safety kit. There are copies available all over the place because Shopsmith decided safety was more important than profits so licensed the patent for free (or maybe chose not to defend it -- same effect). Volvo patented the 3-point safety belt and by the same logic decided to give it away. Whether either company ultimately benefited from this decision financially, I've no idea. Probably not. Sawstop has many patents (again, founded by patent lawyers). Might it be the case that they could give away one in order to force competitors to license others? Based on what I've read I don't think their motives are pure....

[docmirror]

I also found the actual wording of the announcement concerning the patent vague enough to be qualified later. However, taking it at face value, with the patent now expired, and no extension issued, it seems to be intended for use in the public domain without compensation. I am prepared to be found wrong should they 'clarify' with a licensing fee or other income mechanism.

[RFGuy]

All,

Up above, I was asked to look in the mirror, so I have taken considerable time to reflect before giving a response. I joined this forum a little over five years ago with the intent to connect with other Shopsmith owners, to hopefully learn some new tips/techniques related to my Mark V since I was finally able to spend more time in my shop, as my extensive time with it was duty cycled due to my career prior to this, and perhaps to share & help others. Optimistically I accomplished 2 out of 3 of those goals here for some of my time here. I joined the forum shortly after one of the periods where Shopsmith seemed to be having financial difficulty, so I was worried about Shopsmith's future as explained in my first post (link below). I did not join this forum with the intent to argue; discuss and friendly debate sure, but not argue. Over these five years, I increasingly found my viewpoint and personal experiences to be divergent from the majority opinions expressed on the forum. I attempted to constructively share where I thought it might benefit others to see Shopsmith, or other tools, or woodworking topics from a different perspective. While my intent was altruistic, my results didn't always converge with my intent unfortunately. For this, I apologize. At times sharing my viewpoint meant sharing a negative view on a particular subject. This was pointed out on more than one occasion, sometimes constructively and in others destructively towards me. Given my divergent viewpoint from the mainstream forum member and because of the destructive feedback I received on the forum, more than once I pointed out that I believed I was misunderstood and mischaracterized here. In short, I don't fit in on this forum. It is ironic that I am posting this on this thread since I am the one taking the positive tone on this thread whereas others are very negative about Sawstop, attorneys, CPSC, patent system, etc., etc. Now who is being negative on the forum? I tried to point out the positives regarding the subject on this thread, as I saw them, but I failed to do so and realized it was pointless for me to continue here. In reflecting on all of this, it is clear to me, as it should be clear to all of you, that I am not a value added member of this forum, despite the recent poll requesting that I remain an active member of this forum. As I depart, I wish to make one last point regarding this thread: Dr. Steve Gass has a doctorate in physics, so he isn't just a patent attorney, so I believe he was quite instrumental in developing the technology behind Sawstop and their patents. For me personally, I find it offensive that someone with his aptitude & ingenuity and the company he helped cofound to be regarded with such ire on this thread. They are an American success story and should be celebrated IMHO, just like I think Shopsmith should be celebrated for what they achieved (in the past). Hopefully Shopsmith will reinvigorate and achieve great things again in the future. I wish all of you a happy and safe adventure in your wood shops. May your Shopsmith equipment perform as you expect for many, many more years. Also, I hope the company succeeds in the future. Take care.

RFGuy's First Forum Post:
viewtopic.php?p=255370#p255370

RFGuy Should he stay or should he go? poll:
viewtopic.php?t=34478

[JPG]

I cannot let this be the final word! Sure there are some here with strongly held opinions(myself included) and they sometimes are a stubborn lot with less than perfect hearing. However having a different view/understanding is NOT justification for vilifying nor being vilified nor is it a valid reason for turning a deaf ear.

All that said, EVERYONE needs to be tolerant and thick skinned and not offended by negative comments by others.

Although I do not agree with every view you(and others) have expressed here I respect others right to think as they do regardless of how ridiculous or misinformed in my opinion their thinking may be, but I must continue to listen. After all it may be me that is ridiculous or misinformed.

Please reconsider (again) and stick around.(and not be offended by others opinion of thee).

[dusty]

You have your opinions and I have mine. They are not always the same and should not be expected to be. We disagree from time to time.

I'm staying and see NO REASON for why you should not.

The poll taken earlier shows unanimous agreement with that.