Shopsmith Forums

RFGuy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:31 pm I agree that Shopsmith doesn't have to do everything internal...many companies don't these days. However, that just increases the final product cost significantly as you have to pay margin on top of unit cost for everything you outsource. Realize he may want to reduce costs by eliminating costly machinery, but then as you do so you have to start asking what actually is it that Shopsmith produces anymore?

They produce Shopsmiths! Where the parts were made never mattered if they were made to a good spec. Can he save any money at the current low volume? I don't know. Almost everything can now be made at the lowest cost by a specialty producer with modern machinery that minimizes costs and can perform customization at low volumes. Not everything is made that way though and it only works if you want the kind of parts those machines can make. Working that out is the kind of engineering work that lies ahead for Nick.

Are you sure about that last point? Really, you want to pay a service contract every year as an insurance policy on a product with a track record of poor reliability and longevity? Service contracts are like printing money for businesses as they often recoup far more than they spend to maintain them. They also love have guaranteed revenue they can count on every year. I would prefer that weak components be re-engineered and/or costs brought down more in line with what other manufacturers are paying StriaTech for similar components on that DVR motor.

Which part has you confused? I would personally pay for insurance for a product with poor reliability and longevity, not for reliable long lasting products. I don't want to stay prepared to shell out 1400 bucks is smoke starts coming out of a headstock. Were you asking about a service contract on the whole machine for commercial users? Businesses want a known cost for the lifetime of a machine they purchase.

Obviously the company needs to take in more than it spends on service contracts, that how all insurance works. And that's how many companies now offset the low margins and high costs of producing their products, and the high quality support services we want them to have. Like anything else it has to priced attractively and provide the service and support customers want.

edma194 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:00 pm They produce Shopsmiths! Where the parts were made never mattered if they were made to a good spec. Can he save any money at the current low volume? I don't know. Almost everything can now be made at the lowest cost by a specialty producer with modern machinery that minimizes costs and can perform customization at low volumes. Not everything is made that way though and it only works if you want the kind of parts those machines can make. Working that out is the kind of engineering work that lies ahead for Nick.

You are arguing it is a good thing for Shopsmith to do less manufacturing in Dayton, so there will be some manufacturing jobs lost there - has to be. You believe they will manufacture more outside of Shopsmith and bring those parts in presumably to assemble or maybe only box it up together to ship it out. So manufacturing is reduced in Dayton, fewer heads are needed, less maintenance with those darn manufacturing machines as you indicated. I believe Scott brought up CNC manufacturing on the interview and I believe Saint Nick mentioned something along the lines that would not be their path, at least not for a loong time. So, cast assemblies can be shopped around and milled components can also be shopped around to get it produced outside for perhaps cheaper. I would argue, in the end, it wouldn't be better (cheaper) unless Shopsmith's existing infrastructure is so bloated that they are ineffective at manufacturing. In fact, on more than one occasion I have heard Scott praise them with how much they have produced with so little in that manufacturing facility. Kudos. So, I still don't see how outsourcing manufacturing, what you are suggesting, is going to help them. I really don't know though, just speculating on this part.

Which part has you confused? I would personally pay for insurance for a product with poor reliability and longevity, not for reliable long lasting products. I don't want to stay prepared to shell out 1400 bucks is smoke starts coming out of a headstock. Were you asking about a service contract on the whole machine for commercial users? Businesses want a known cost for the lifetime of a machine they purchase.

Obviously the company needs to take in more than it spends on service contracts, that how all insurance works. And that's how many companies now offset the low margins and high costs of producing their products, and the high quality support services we want them to have. Like anything else it has to priced attractively and provide the service and support customers want.

Ideally I choose never to buy a product with poor reliability and longevity, but obviously that is not always the case/possible. The only place I choose to spend on service contracts are areas where the asset has substantial value and perhaps an accident can happen. Only few that meet these criteria for me are house, car and iPhone. Everything else in my world is either fixable by me or chosen to be a disposable, i.e. replaceable if/when it bites the dust. It is a cost benefit (ROI) calculation for me. What are the chances said product will die prematurely before I received a certain useful life out of it and can part with the $$$ to replace it down the road? So, given my criteria, I will give you this one. A PP1 or PP2 cost boo koo bucks and has we call it some quirks, so yes you are right. A service contract is probably the only reasonable solution to this problem, even though I don't like it. You are right. By the way, you have reminded me yet again why I still don't own a PowerPro.

My first post here. Really enjoying reading through this thread.

I want to start off by saying that I really admire what Mr Cupps is doing. I really think he has his heart and mind into this acquisition. He makes some really good points in Scott’s video - the challenge of keeping existing customers and thus attracting new.

Let’s examine existing customers first. Most of us are old farts. Many are set in our ways and are probably resistant to change. It took me until retirement three years ago to purchase my first ShopSmith product, the Mark 7. It’s a wonderfully designed piece of equipment but it does have its limitations like most other things. I’m a hobbyist, much like the workshop Nerdery (who I think is brilliant by the way), who doesn’t want or need a full line of equipment but can be adjustable according to one’s skills or needs. I love technology and did purchase the 2nd generation touchpad and it’s both an improvement and a setback to what it could have been all at the same time.

New customers next. I really believe there’s a huge market out there; they just don’t know it yet. I really think one of the big keys to the future is the smart motor. Just think of possibilities - troubleshooting, online training classes, webinars, videos, owners manual, parts list, etc. It’s mind boggling to think about. How does Mr Cupps get there? ShopSmith needs to be a company that engineering graduates want to work. We need young minds. I believe it’s a combination of computer and technical engineering. A modern touchscreen can go a long way for a start.

Mr Cupps deserves a chance. ShopSmith needs modernization in the worst way. A get the feeling that some are writing him off already. I believe young people will want these type of hands-on skills. Marketing is everything, and there’s so many more opportunities today than there’s ever been.

I’m 100% behind Mr Cupps. I’m excited for the future. I hope you all can get on board as well!

FreddyK wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:41 pm My first post here. Really enjoying reading through this thread.
...
It took me until retirement three years ago to purchase my first ShopSmith product, the Mark 7. It’s a wonderfully designed piece of equipment but it does have its limitations like most other things. ... I love technology and did purchase the 2nd generation touchpad and it’s both an improvement and a setback to what it could have been all at the same time.

Freddy,

Welcome to the forum! Many of us would love to hear more about your experiences with the Gen 2 PP, both the good and the bad. Definitely seems like an upgrade from the Gen 1 design, in my opinion, but I wish the Gen 2 LCD was larger and that the display would rotate when in drill press mode. Still hands down, it is a significant improvement over Gen 1, I believe. You can post here, but it is best if you open up a new thread and start talking about the Gen 2 there, i.e. just to make it easier for others to find what you post on it in the future. I believe only one other forum member has purchased the new Gen 2 LCD touchscreen (and posted about it), so it would be good to hear of your experiences with it and get your feedback. Thanks.

As a ShopSmith owner since 1975 (Mark V and upgraded to PowPro head and new tables) I welcome our new owner to ShopSmith.
Sorting out what has been done in the past and forging a path forward is a huge undertaking that is filled with excitement about what can be done and trepidation about making changes that will not always work out. ShopSmith history is filled with both stories.

I am reluctant to tell someone how to run their business but I will offer this observation anyway.

ShopSmith has obviously faced a shrinking market due to fewer young people being exposed to shop and increasingly turning to gaming and computer gadgets for their entertainment. However, one group of potential buyers is women. While men may be off playing on the computer or watching football, the ladies have been busy with their hands preparing meals, washing clothes, and using a myriad of power tools to carry out these chores.

I find it interesting that the producers of these mechanical devices marketed to the ladies do not focus on the mechanics of how they work but rather on the results of the effort. Kitchenaid (TM) mixers are in fact a multi-tool that can perform several tasks, same with Vitamix(TM) , etc. However, ads directed to this market do not focus on the machine so much as they focus on what delicious foods or sparkling clean clothes can be produced with them.

I know ShopSmith has focused on women in the past but it seems to me that they have focused on the machine, things men are interested in, and not the final product that one can make. I think this is the big difference between marketing to men versus marketing to women.

I would like to see ShopSmith produce a series on making Holliday ornaments, and household knickknacks that can show off a lady's skills with the machine. That is, a marketing program to focus on the end product rather the the mechanics of the machine. I know there are a number of very talented lady ShopSmith users who are more than capable of putting together such a video series.

Women are smart, and capable, and may be the only family member in today's society still using mechanical power tools every day. The new woman has her own garage space and the finances to purchase the tool if she has a desire to make interesting things that she can make and display.

Just one voice.

The PP2 is a good upgrade from the original. It’s easy to use. Big screen and easy to upgrade from Gen1.

I recently returned mine for some programming update due to a few bugs that show up every so often. Great thing about Shopsmith is they stand behind their product.

erectormik wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:44 am I recently returned mine for some programming update due to a few bugs that show up every so often.

Can you say more about this?? Was this for your PP2, and if so, you had to return the whole headstock for this, or just the electronic interface?

In addition to my 520 Shopsmith, i have a 6" Grizzly joiner. I find that I hardly ever use it. Woodworker and Freud make "Glue line" saw blades which create wonderful, ready to glue edges. I have built several pieces of furniture for our home and would defy anyone to look at the joints and tell the difference. I do understand that a joiner has other uses though.

Yes an excellent saw blade will minimize the need for jointing(assuming thee has well tempered/straight boards).

As a past traveling academy instructor and owner of many Shopsmith tools, I find this encouraging for the company and Shopsmith owners.