A suit over 4X4's when will it end

[jsburger]

Check this out from FineHomebuilding.

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/06 ... =166441699

If the judge doesn't throw it out on the first day (probably won't) and it goes to a jury trial the idiot jury will probably find in favor of the plaintiffs. No wonder the justice system is screwed up. Lawyers are not interested in justice only money. It is really sad.

[Hobbyman2]

The average person will care less one way or another,.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a college professor years ago in robotics class about building materials , all their formulas dealing with construction material were based on fictional numbers,, a 2x4 isnt a 2x4 so the strength in the formulas were all wrong,, all though he agreed with me he still insisted on the math be done in a fictional form because it was the status quo .




And folks complain when a concrete mix isnt correct.

for the average deck or porch a 3.5 x 3.5 will work as well as a 4x4 in most locations , they should just label the lumber and offer correct size lumber for those who care.


The 2x4 in the old part of the house measures 1 7/8 x 3 7/8

It sucks when a are trying to match up a floor or wall repair with the new stuff.

As far as the board strength of the two they dont compare .

[Hobbyman2]

when is a 4x4 a 4x4

When it isnt a 10 gllon hat.

[jsburger]

https://courses.cit.cornell.edu/arch264 ... xample7.1/

Capacity of wood column calculator
Jonathan Ochshorn

© 2008-2014 Jonathan Ochshorn.

contact | academic homepage | Structural Elements text | calculator homepage

Directions: Select wood species and grade (or enter values for modulus of elasticity, E, and allowable stress, Fc, after setting "Species" for "Other"), wet service conditions, duration of load factor (CD), and effective column height for both axes (unless braced at different points, both heights should be the same -- see Fig. 1). Select either the 2005 or 2012 National Design Specification (NDS) values for lumber sizes, and choose either nails or bolts for built-up columns (see the NDS for nail and bolt requirements). Revised values for Southern Pine (effective June 1, 2013) are included only when the 2012 NDS is selected. Press "update" button.

See additional explanations and examples in my text. The duration of load factor, CD, for common proportions of dead and live loads is 1.0. For other combined loads (e.g., snow and dead load), see text for further details.

Note that the size factor adjustment (CF) should not be included in the allowable stress value entered, as it is already included in the calculations for each column size. The combined values of allowable stress and size factor for Southern Pine have been accounted for.

The x-axis refers to the "strong" axis of bending, except in the case of 3-2x4's bolted together, where the y-axis is stronger (see Fig. 2a). Fig. 2b shows an example where different unbraced lengths apply to the two axes: sheathing nailed to the stud prevents buckling about the y-axis, but not the x-axis. In this case, one might model the column with an unbraced height of 8 feet about the x-axis, and 0 feet about the y-axis.

axes of buckling
Fig. 1. Wood compression element showing different unbraced lengths for x- and y-axesaxes of buckling
Fig. 2. a) definition of x- and y-axes for wood cross-sections; b) example of continuous bracing for y-axis
Update
Species
These values not used except for 'other' species
Dimension lumber
Fc (psi) =
1,700
Emin (psi) =
690,000
Emin (psi) Fc (psi) Column size Capacity (lb)

580,000

1100

2x4

636



2-2x4

2,911

Grade
3-2x4

8,820


2x6

998


2-2x6

4,559


3-2x6

13,716




2x8

1,315


2-2x8

5,988


3-2x8

17,869


Lumber dimensions:

2x10

1,676


2-2x10

7,610



3-2x10

22,499


2x12

2,039


2-2x12

9,255

Duration of load factor, Cd
3-2x12

27,363


4x4

7,497



4x6

11,723


4x8

15,368


4x10

19,485

Outdoors (wet service conditions)?
4x12

23,698



Beams and stringers
Fc (psi) =
1,100
Emin (psi) =
580,000
Column size Capacity (lb)
Unbraced height, KL (ft), x-axis

6x10

42,775


6x12

52,023


8x12

79,068


8.50


Posts and timbers
Unbraced height, KL (ft), y-axis Fc (psi) =
1,150
Emin (psi) =
580,000
Column size Capacity (lb)

6x6

26,137


8.50

6x8

34,454


8x8

52,866


For built-up columns:

8x10

67,450


10x10

91,529


10x12

111,319


12x12

139,048



Capacity calculation values for:


x-axis dimension = 5.5 in.

y-axis dimension = 3 in.

Cf or size factor = 1.1

Cm or wet service factor = 1

Cd or load duration factor = 1

See values of Fc above; F*c = Fc x Cf x Cm x Cd = 1870 psi

Values for x-axis buckling:

See values of E'min above. FcE = 0.822 x E'min / (le/d)^2 = 1649.1 psi.

For built-up columns only, the value of Kf = 1 for buckling about the x-axis.

Cp or stability factor includes Kf and equals: 0.646

Values for y-axis buckling:

See values of E'min above. FcE = 0.822 x E'min / (le/d)^2 = 490.64 psi.

For nailed built-up columns only, the value of Kf = 0.6 for buckling about the y-axis.

Cp or stability factor includes Kf and equals: 0.148

Capacity of 2-2x6 = F*c x minimum Cp x area = 1870 x 0.148 x 5.5 x 3 = 4559 lb.

Update Run Excel on the web server
Disclaimer: This calculator is not intended to be used for the design of actual structures, but only for schematic (preliminary) understanding of structural design principles. For the design of an actual structure, a competent professional should be consulted.

First posted July 1, 2008 | Last updated March 28, 2014
===========

a 3.3 x 3.5 isnt the same as a 4x4 in a strength test.

Of course that is true. So what is your point? A link to the article would have been much more informative since the layout of your post is unreadable as to the context. Maybe it is my computer.

Engineers certainly understand the actual dimension of the material they are specifying. Construction codes are based on the actual dimension of the material specified.

2X4 is a name just like 4X4 or 3/4 inch plywood. The label does not say 2"X4". A stupid frivolous law suit that some greedy lawyer took on for money. Class action with only 3 plaintiffs? What a bunch of crap.

[recurvearcher]

Dear Stetson Co.,

Regarding my newly purchased 10 gallon hat....

[Hobbyman2]

2X4 is a name just like 4X4

===========

Unless it is advertising?


Thanks for sharing .

[Hobbyman2]

Dear Stetson Co.,

Regarding my newly purchased 10 gallon hat....

===============

[Hobbyman2]

Might need to take test to buy a 10 gallon hat?

[Hobbyman2]

As it turns out this is about labeling ..

I will retract my post on lumber strength since it doesnt pertain to labeling .

http://www.ien.com/supply-chain/video/2 ... mber-sizes

Simple fix for those who are not carpenters.

Thing is they still wont be able to buy a real 4x4

Maybe they will sue for the actual building formulas to be changed to?

Or because a 1/2 inch router bit is too big for a 1/2 board?

[dusty]

A 3.5"x3.5" 4x4 was 4"x4" when it was rough cut. The 2x4s used to be 1 5/8" x 3 5/8" too. That was back in my teen years. They are now 1 1/2"x3 1/2".

Capture True Dimensions.JPG (26.84 KiB) Viewed 9365 times

However, the way the court system has been working these days and with an uninformed jury (which won't be hard to seat), Menards and home Depot might lose this one. Surely there must have been a contractor involved. If there was, I wonder why he/she is not named in the lawsuit. A contractor would have more responsibility in this than plaintiff.