Hand Shake Agreement - and Honor

[db5]

Just saw an old movie wherein two people agreed to a sale. Then they shook on it. That was a hand-shake agreement. Old, lost and forgotten; just as a man’s word. Neither seems to mean anything nowadays. Today, if you don’t have a contract then it means nothing; honor is a lost concept. Honor means nothing in today’s society. That is sad because without honor you can’t trust anyone. My experience is that less than half the population on websites I have dealt with have any honor. Statistically the number is less than 20%. Not good.

As a statistician and psychologist I think these numbers apply to this site (with a 5% variation) .

Recommendations:

Copy every PM you send – you can do this easily with Windows 7 and 8.

Save it to a folder because this site doesn’t show sent messages.

Copy every PM reply and save it to the same folder.

This will enable you to have proof of messages sent and received and easily accessible.

If you don’t know how to do this with Windows 7 or 8 leave a reply and I’ll provide the details – with pictures.

Now, back to the original theme – a man’s word: my experience is that it is gone and forgotten. If this message makes you think it might refer to you – it does.

[JPG]

Save it to a folder because this site doesn’t show sent messages.[/B]
. . . .

'site' has both an inbox and sent messages folder.

[benush26]

About a month ago a stock picture of a teal Shopsmith stand alone scroll saw on was placed on CL. I watched and two weeks ago it was still listed. I contacted the poster asking if it was still for sale and if it was, could they wait until the 3rd for me to give them the $300 they were asking. Her email reply was if I promised to take it they would sell it for $200. No reason why she reduced the price. Of course, I agreed. It was an internet handshake, I asked if she could send actual photos plus the serial number. She tried, but they wouldn't come through (Hotmail blocked them on my end) and I wrote back saying the same. She swore that it was the same saw as the one shown in the stock SS photo and told me the serial number.

Soon after, the listing was removed. Nine days go by and I call as promised to get directions (about 80 miles away) and confirm a time to arrive.

The evening of the 3rd I arrive. She meets and greets and shows me the scroll saw. PRISTINE! In the ad and in her emails. she described it as dusty (no not THAT Dusty! ), however it is clean. PLUS she has the manual! (It has a 1999 construction date serial number)

I am certain that she had other offers after I contacted her, but she kept her word, the internet handshake. I'm fairly certain that that qualifies as honorable.

I don't disagree that much of society distrusts, but whose fault is that? Rather than try to discuss, we shout about suing. If your neighbors do something you don't like, do you go over and talk about it or just sit in your chair and get pissed? My Masters degree is in Conflict Resolution, I am a foundling member of the Montana Mediation Association, created the Lewis and Clark Mediation Center and worked to get mediation in the courts (my Masters capstone). What did it accomplish? Not much. Much of society has relinquished civility for legal actions. Why talk it out when you can sue the begeezus (sp) out of someone? Somewhere I read that we turn out more lawyers than teachers.

Do you haggle with someone about a price, trying to get a better deal (not talking about dealing with professional sales people - car sales, etc.) just as a general circumstance? For example, You (figurative you not actually YOU ) go to look at a Shopsmith. You figure it is really worth $300. The seller figures it is worth $300, so why do they ask for $500 but you offer $100? You are both start the conversation as LIARS! You lie about how much you are willing to pay and they lie about how much they are willing to take. What does that say about handshakes and honor when a simple transaction starts out with both of you knowing the other is lying? Children watch and learn form adults. They are taught by example that "No" doesn't really mean no, don't tell the truth to get a better deal, and on and on ad nauseum.

You want the situation to change? Be truthful FIRST. Don't wait for the other person to succumb to honor before you do. My belief is that being truthful is much like a smile, it's easier to get others to do the same if you go first.

Just my 2 cents.

Be well,
Ben

[steve4447]

There are honest people and there are people who are just out to screw as many people as they can and are keeping score....

There are entire industries and professions where there are no written contracts of any kind....Diamond Brokers for example....They operate on the very simple principle that we all are honorable men of our word and if and when anyone shows his colors as anything else..No One in the group will Ever do business with him ever again...

He is done one scam..and no second chance...As long as there are people who will continuing business with crocked dealers they will thrive...(There is simply no way that I can make as good a deal as you ...If I have to keep my word and you can lie to the same customer)...You will out sell me every time..

Rather than constantly litigating I wish folks would refuse to do any business with known crooks....I know that for one off deals not so easy but ...Far to many continue to support people who they know are dishonorable

[Gene Howe]

I'm sitting at a oak desk and knocking wood as I type.
I've done a fair amount of buying and selling on this and other forums and have never been cheated or scammed or lied to. (another knock) And, I've certainly not done so to anyone else.

Same experience with E Bay and Craigslist. (knock again)

The literal and virtual handshake has always been good enough for me.

Am I naive? Maybe, but I sleep well and remain happy, and confident in the inherent goodness of men.

Knocking wood helps, too.

[dgale]

I work directly with private landowner/ranchers in my job, developing plans to restore fish/wildlife/wetland habitat on their property, both to benefit the critters and also to benefit their land management and their personal recreational desires (i.e. fishing and hunting). We work collaboratively to develop plans that meet both of our needs, then we shake on it and move forward. As someone who works for a Federal agency, we are of course full of mandated bureaucracy, funding agreements, and other "paperwork" but when it comes to working with ranchers, it's always the handshake and the look in the eye after we come to an agreement on our course of action that is what matters. Building trust with these individuals is essential - they have come to trust me, my intentions, and my word, and once we shake on something, they sign any form I put in front of them, usually with minimal or no reading or concern over what it says…I tell them it needs to be signed and they trust me and sign it. They know I have their back and that I am a "straight shooter". Without this level of trust, our program goes nowhere. Ranchers aren't interested in working with government bean counters and regulators, but they appreciate our program because we are anything but. Without an honest handshake that means something, our program would be dead in the water.

[skou]

Same experience with E Bay and Craigslist. (knock again)

The literal and virtual handshake has always been good enough for me.

Gene, me too. Except ONE deal on Ebay, in 14 years.

steve

[forrestb]

I just concluded a hand-shake only deal to have our front threshold replaced. They are finishing up today and both of us have kept our word. So it happens.

I guess I could be called cynical because I believe that this lack of honesty is driven in part by the total lack of honesty on the part of too many of our local and national politicians. Our current President 'Lair, Liar, Pants On Fire' Obama is only the present day flaming example. And to make it doubly worse, they never receive any punishment, so on it goes.

Forrest

[rcplaneguy]

I just concluded a hand-shake only deal to have our front threshold replaced. They are finishing up today and both of us have kept our word. So it happens.

I guess I could be called cynical because I believe that this lack of honesty is driven in part by the total lack of honesty on the part of too many of our local and national politicians. Our current President 'Lair, Liar, Pants On Fire' Obama is only the present day flaming example. And to make it doubly worse, they never receive any punishment, so on it goes.

Forrest

So true! A shame such bad behavior is tolerated.

[Gene Howe]

Forrest,
I think we were talking about handshake deals with people we hardly know.
I know that guy of which you speak and I wouldn't come close to entering into any kind of business arrangement with the lying S.O.B.
Or most any other politician.
Keeping one hand on your wallet and the other on your gun leaves no opportunity for a handshake.