Comparison dovetail hand saw - cut results

bobgroh · Post by **bobgroh** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:03 pm

On an impulse yesterday, I did a quick comparison of the 'quality' of the cuts made by a variety of fine tooth hand saws I have around the shop. Some pretty interesting results and I thought you all might find it interesting.

Here is a picture of the 5 saws I grabbed for my 'mini-test':

[ATTACH]26984[/ATTACH]

The five saws are (right to left):
A common 'gent's' saw for dovetailing
B Veritas dovetail saw - 20 tpi rip
C Crown brand - used for cutting trim, etc
D Two Cherries brand - again a trim saw
E Stanley 39-342 miter box saw (garden variety but older type)

Then I took a piece of junk pine and made a series of short rip cuts - results:
[ATTACH]26985[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]26986[/ATTACH]

The results, to my eye, are both expected and unexpected! The Veritas (B) is the best of the lot (no surprise there). The 'gents' saw(A) is next in line - a bit rough but fine and stays in line. The two trim saws (C and D) are pretty bad - the cuts are rough and, due to the blade offset, very hard to keep the cuts vertical.

The surprise is the Stanley (E). It had a nice cut quality, cut well and cut quickly. The handle is a piece less than pleasing but .... the darned thing did pretty good! I'll have to do something about that handle.

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:15 pm

Thanks for posting this. I've never owned a gents saw or dedicated dovetail saw, but I do have a similar Stanley brand saw from a 20-plus year old miter box, so I will give it a try one of these days and see if I can make dovetails with it!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:56 pm

algale wrote:Thanks for posting this. I've never owned a gents saw or dedicated dovetail saw, but I do have a similar Stanley brand saw from a 20-plus year old miter box, so I will give it a try one of these days and see if I can make dovetails with it!

Are they all 'push' saws?

bobgroh · Post by **bobgroh** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:30 pm

JPG wrote:Are they all 'push' saws?

Yes, all are 'push' saws. Good old conventional stuff.

nuhobby · Post by **nuhobby** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:05 pm

I've looked at a few of those old miter-saws, and they typically aren't a dedicated cross-cut unless they're the old 20-inch or longer type. The 12-14 inch types often have tooth angles that are sort of a hybrid of Rip and Crosscut, so they can actually be pretty versatile!

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:52 pm

Surprising!

Are they all properly sharpened and set? Especially C and D! B and E appear as I would expect. A may be okay ( a little misalignment maybe ).

rhatt · Post by **rhatt** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:47 am

WOW... Interesting

derekdarling · Post by **derekdarling** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:20 pm

Actually, the Veritas dovetail saw is a 'pull'saw. The spine is attached to the blade at the front end, so any pushing at the handle is pulling on the blade.

Derek Darling
10ER
(Lee Valley minion)

bobgroh · Post by **bobgroh** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:24 pm

derekdarling wrote:Actually, the Veritas dovetail saw is a 'pull'saw. The spine is attached to the blade at the front end, so any pushing at the handle is pulling on the blade.

Derek Darling
10ER
(Lee Valley minion)

I totally disagree, Derek. The designation 'pull' for saws (according to what I know and goodness knows I've been wrong many times) refers to the direction the teeth cut. Most/all western saws do their cutting on the forward stroke, i.e. the push stroke. You can see this when you look at the way the teeth are sharpened (i.e. on the edge of the tooth closest to the user).

Many (most) of eastern saws (e.g. Japanese) do their cutting on the pull stroke (i.e. when in the back direction or towards the user). The advantage of the 'pull' saw is that the blade is in tension on the cutting stroke and the manufacturer can use a thinner plate.

The Veritas is a push saw - the handle pushes the blade forward and the teeth cut only in that direction. The spline on the top is there to stiffen the blade so you can use a thinner saw plate which, with a small set on the teeth, permit a thinner kerf.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:58 pm

derekdarling wrote:Actually, the Veritas dovetail saw is a 'pull'saw. The spine is attached to the blade at the front end, so any pushing at the handle is pulling on the blade.

Derek Darling
10ER
(Lee Valley minion)

You push the handle.

The handle pushes the spine.

The spine PULLS the blade so it is in tension.

If I understand correctly.

Some descriptive words do not always mean the same thing in all instances.

Some manufacturers apply principles of operation differently.

Think of that saw as a bridge between Japanese and American mindset/habit.

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