Shopsmith DEMO

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:19 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:I think there is a degree of truth in that. I have been told number of people that should know that Shopsmith's fate will be decided by present day owners and whether they upgrade to Power Pro or not.

I think Shopsmith has pretty much decided that in the present day market selling new Shopsmiths to new owners will not support the company. There just isn't enough people willing to pay that much money for a hobbiest wood working machine.

Frankly I hope Shopsmith wakes up to the fact that Nick and his Sawdust sessions was Shopsmith's best way to introduce and sell products to existing Shopsmith customers. I don't know how expensive it was trying to do those live webcast, but I think that was probably Shopsmith's biggest bang for the buck. I know I ordered a number of products from SS at time. I saw Nick using them and what he was doing with them was exactly what I needed.

Plus I met a couple of the guys at the sessions (online of course) and I feel connected to them still, even Dusty . I think that is what made SS great in the past was a sense of community and I think that is will make SS great again if they do it.

Back in the day the "Hands On" mag is probably the straw that broke the camels back in my decision to buy Shopsmith. I know a few friends that bought SS because of the in store Saw Dust sessions. I think for me to buy today, it would take something similar and the online Sawdust sessions are it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Without information from Shopsmith about the capabilities of the unit and the benefits, it is easy to come away feeling like there are more "doesn't work on a Shopsmith" statements than there should be. I am happy to figure stuff out on my own, but its always nice to see clear examples of how the shopsmith works, what makes it unique, and places where it really excels. I really appreciated the places where nick was able to show the disadvantages and how to work around them.

moggymatt · Post by **moggymatt** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:21 pm

I watched Mike during a couple of demos here in Spokane last week and thought he did a fair job. I too, wanted to see the new version up close, and plan on getting one to replace my '80's Mark V 500. I just have to get the wife a few more bribes, I mean gifts... Watching the guys who showed up for the demos( I watched it a couple of times because it was only 5 min from work) and hearing what thay had to say walking away, make me think markets of similar size might not be doing too well. All the wives were saying no way, not that much for 1 tool, and the few business guys that were hanging out all just walked off when the pricing came up. I think the tool is perfect for the stuff I want to do but the price puts it out of reach for a lot of those who I've talked to and actually want to use it around here.

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:34 pm

moggymatt wrote:I watched Mike during a couple of demos here in Spokane last week and thought he did a fair job. I too, wanted to see the new version up close, and plan on getting one to replace my '80's Mark V 500. I just have to get the wife a few more bribes, I mean gifts... Watching the guys who showed up for the demos( I watched it a couple of times because it was only 5 min from work) and hearing what thay had to say walking away, make me think markets of similar size might not be doing too well. All the wives were saying no way, not that much for 1 tool, and the few business guys that were hanging out all just walked off when the pricing came up. I think the tool is perfect for the stuff I want to do but the price puts it out of reach for a lot of those who I've talked to and actually want to use it around here.

I agree - $2000 for the motor alone is a tough sell. If they made the whole MK7 $2000 plus shipping they would have a real contender.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:05 pm

If you want to know what really sold the accessories for SS, it was the Traveling Academy (ended due to costs). Whenever I attended a class here on the west coast, the instructor had no problem selling at least $10,000 worth of accessories at each stop he made. Each stop consisted of three days of classes.
On the other hand, he didn't sell that much when he visited the midwest and east coast. Here on the west coast the claases were full, but the rest of the country only showed slight interest, with some classes having only three students show up.
The company has said that for the last 10 or so years, their biggest selling region has been the west coast. I don't know why.
I myself watched several of the online sawdust sessions with Nick but never felt compelled to purchase anything because they showed the tool on it. But when I saw the tools being used, and also being able to actually use them myself, in person during a Traveling Academy class, then I would put my money on the table.
Maybe they need to bring the Traveling Academy back, at least on the west coast, where they had no problems selling accesssories to the students.

I feel the company would make the most money focusing on and selling their full line of accessories, instead of focusing on just the Power Pro. To me, the Power Pro is just another upgrade, like the upgrades to change from a 510 to a 520. Putting the whole company on the line promoting just one upgrade/accessory and hoping the Power Pro will save them is just crazy. In the least, during these new demos, maybe they need to show off all the accessories they can fit into a demo, not just the Power Pro. Talking about the full line of accessories will show potential new customers all the things a Shopsmith can actually do, not just an electronic gizmo with buttons you can push that has actually been around for several years on variable speed lathes.
The technology of the Power Pro is nothing new, except that Shopsmith has finally gotten around to adding it to their line of products, something they could have done years ago.

rkh2 · Post by **rkh2** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:36 pm

I think along the same lines as you do Woodburner. I attended four TA's when they were here in TN and it was an hours drive for me one way, and I would do all three days. I think that on each one I made a substantial purchase. Everyone that I attended had at least 10 attendees and the majority of them made purchases as there always seemed to be specials only available at the TA's. Also getting exposed to some uses which I had not done prior was also very beneficial and the instructors were very knowledgeable about woodworking as well as the tool. In my opinion, the ProPower Upgrade and the Mark 7 upgrade would be a couple of additional things that could be demostrated. Everyone that I attended had two Shopsmiths, so it could be very easy to have say the 520 upgrade on one and the PowerPro/Mark 7 on the other one. I would love to see SS start them up again.

tomsalwasser · Post by **tomsalwasser** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:09 am

rkh2 wrote:I think along the same lines as you do Woodburner. I attended four TA's when they were here in TN and it was an hours drive for me one way, and I would do all three days. I think that on each one I made a substantial purchase. Everyone that I attended had at least 10 attendees and the majority of them made purchases as there always seemed to be specials only available at the TA's. Also getting exposed to some uses which I had not done prior was also very beneficial and the instructors were very knowledgeable about woodworking as well as the tool. In my opinion, the ProPower Upgrade and the Mark 7 upgrade would be a couple of additional things that could be demostrated. Everyone that I attended had two Shopsmiths, so it could be very easy to have say the 520 upgrade on one and the PowerPro/Mark 7 on the other one. I would love to see SS start them up again.

Sounds like a great business opportunity for a skilled woodworker who is also a real people person. Offer Shopsmith training classes. Have a truck full of carefully chosen inventory, offer a discount, free shipping of course (the stuff is in the truck

and accept credit cards. The right team could work real hard for 6-7 months then take a breather. Kind of like the Woodworking Shows that travel the country.

I'm full of ideas, but short on execution. Feel free to run with this one guys!

Best,
Tom

wa2crk · Post by **wa2crk** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:53 am

I thought that SS would have changed their pricing when they re-organized.
I spoke to a rep in Hanover Pa before I moved to Fl and this is his story.
He lived in Salt Lake City and flew to Dayton to pick up the truck. Then he drove to Hanover which he was told was an 8 hour drive but is more like ten.
Then SS had to pay all his expenses for three days in a motel and all meals. Then the return drive to Dayton and the return flight to Salt lake City.
This is a high expense item for SS to bear and then expect the rep to sell enough product to make a profit for SS and also to pay a commission to the rep. That seems like a tough nut to me.
Since re-organizing they have eliminated all sales staff, travel expenses,commissions and a fleet of vehicles and the insurance on those vehicles.
Maybe I am missing a point here, but I think that a price restructuring was in order back then. Just my opinion.
Bill V

BigSky · Post by **BigSky** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:42 am

It seems like it could be an entrepreneurial opportunity for someone but only if Shopsmith would share the profit line.

The expenses of regional, independent dealers would not be a Shopsmith concern. The independent would be challenged to keep those under control. Someone with an RV Hauler would be setup great. Just show up on site (Walmart Parking Lot) and go for it.

Of course, Shopsmith would still have to review their pricing strategy. Mark up on top of mark up soon makes everything too expensive. Check the gas pump for an example.

berry · Post by **berry** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:07 am

woodburner wrote:If you want to know what really sold the accessories for SS, it was the Traveling Academy (ended due to costs). Whenever I attended a class here on the west coast, the instructor had no problem selling at least $10,000 worth of accessories at each stop he made. Each stop consisted of three days of classes.
On the other hand, he didn't sell that much when he visited the midwest and east coast. Here on the west coast the claases were full, but the rest of the country only showed slight interest, with some classes having only three students show up.
The company has said that for the last 10 or so years, their biggest selling region has been the west coast. I don't know why.

You don't know why SS can sell more units on the west coast than in the mid west? Population, the number of potential customers. California has more people that South Dakota, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois COMBINED. LA has a larger population than 3 of those states. And if population isn't enough there the ever present issue of climate. It is ever so much easier to have a garage workshop when the temp is always above freezing and you car isn't covered with snow and ice each morning. And the right coast. Even with SS renowned small footprint I can't imagine having a hobby workshop in NYC or Boston in a 6th floor walk up. I'd take up knitting first.

All three of the classes I attended in Bloomington, MN were packed. Some guys had driven 200 miles to attend.

But you are right on the money about the classes. I spent money at all three I attended.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:41 am

I don't know actual costs and all but I would guess $10,000 in sales becomes far less when you consider.
Travel expense including air travel or by private vehicle to pick up SS vehicle, vehicle, tires, oil, gas, insurance etc.
Lodging and Meals
Salary
Facility rental costs Hotel or whatever include money tied up in reservations and such.
Liability insurance
Then factor in advertising, regisitration, material, handouts, charts, audio visual equipment, order forms, order processing and etc.

My guess in today's economy it can't be done even with $10,000 in sales.

Nick once told me that even considering everything that went into the production of the online live webcasts of the SawDust sessions Shopsmith was getting the biggest bang for their buck out of it.

Nick was convinced this was the only way SS was going to survive, and I still believe that to be true.

In the past I attended two academies and I don't recall ever buying anything from them. I did buy later because of them but not at the academy itself.

We also had a Shopsmith store in town and that did weekly sawdust sessions. I often attended I usually bought something because I believe in the paying for my seat. In other words if I attended I did feel I should support the store. But many many that attended often grabbed all the free stuff and split immediately after the session ended. They are often the ones now complaining why doesn't SS have these sessions anymore.

However I did purchase a number of items after watching Nick put them through their paces. I can only guess what Nick could/would do with a Power Pro. But the most fun of the Nick's sawdust sessions was tormenting Dusty over his reception problems and asking Nick questions.