Lathe accuracy

[rpd]

I've my Shopsmith for over 7 years now, and have yet to use it. It's a green model.

did), and then they charge you 30 bucks for a manual. 10 more bucks for a supplement to the manual.

Check this link for a PDF file of the original owners manual for the MK5 "greenie"

http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/ssm5manual.htm

and this link to All In One Wood Tools, the Canadian Distributor, has several more files that may be useful.

http://allinonewood.com/?page=shop/serviceadvisor&PHPSESSID=38f2c4070c757e4d4f947853c5c4d8d6

[JPG]

Check this link for a PDF file of the original owners manual for the MK5 "greenie"

http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/ssm5manual.htm

and this link to All In One Wood Tools, the Canadian Distributor, has several more files that may be useful.

http://allinonewood.com/?page=shop/serviceadvisor&PHPSESSID=38f2c4070c757e4d4f947853c5c4d8d6

My 510manual is in excess of 150 pages. My goldie manual is 20 pages.

I have no idea how large the incra manual is. How much do copy places charge per sheet(both sides = 2).

[dusty]

I've my Shopsmith for over 7 years now, and have yet to use it. It's a green model.

I recently found a fella who has started to show me how to turn wood (the reason I bought it).

I just have the spur drive and dead center that came with it. I've been looking for a good deal on a nova G3, and have found a pretty good one. However, what is really Pi@@@ng me off about SS, is the fact that you pay through the behind for these things (unless you buy a used one - which I did), and then they charge you 30 bucks for a manual. 10 more bucks for a supplement to the manual. there are NO perks to being a shopsmith owner. a lot of the products SS sells that are made by other manufacturers (the nova G3, for instance) are more expensive from SS, than other places (even with having to buying the adapter at other places).

anyway, i've been doing a lot of research, and I keep hearing about the wobble, because of the single-bearing quill. well, according to SS, the 2-bearing quill upgrade does not work with the gilmer drive systems (what I have). SS even says the single-bearing quill is less accurate and has problems with wobble and runout. they, themselves, are admitting this machine is not accurate. Do I want to be turning a pen that has less than 1/8" of wood on top of the inner barrel, with a machine that doesn't turn true?

i bought this thing, mostly because of the lathe functionality. what is everyone's honest opinion on the accuracy (ie, wobble and runout) of the lathe function? it would seem to me, that by extending the quill, you are making it less stable.

it may be good for pens and candlesticks, but that is not what i'm interested in doing. i'm also not interested in chasing this thing all over the shop (doesn't sound real safe).

if you couldn't tell, i'm kind of irked with my purchase 7 years ago, and am trying to think of a reason to keep it.

is every other forum on the internet that is not a Shopsmith forum wrong?

normally, i would say, yes, a tool snob is going to say everything else is poor quality. but when every other owner of a different tool brand agrees with each other than one brand is a "alright" jack of all trades, but a poor specialist, i wonder. when other brands of this type of device are referred to as "a more heavy duty shopsmith," it doesn't inspire confidence.

i would like honest opinions on the lathes functionality.

If you came to this forum looking for sympathy, you are not going to get it from me. You have an attitude and have already made up your mind that the Shopsmith is a hunk of junk. When I have junk - I get rid of it. That is what I think you ought to do. Get rid of it. Make it available to someone who will appreciate it for what it is. It is a fine piece of machinery but only in the hands of a person with the potential for becoming a craftsman.

[algale]

Let's take a different approach. What lathe would you be in the market for if you got rid of the Shopsmith because of its perceived inadequacies.

You might look at some of the "midi" lathes. Before you buy, there's an interesting article in the Fine Woodworking 2012 Tool Guide on "midi" lathes from Delta, General International, Penn State and Jet. These are dedicated lathes from $450 to $930 (including the cost of an extra bed extension -- why don't they give those out for free or at a discount?).

These midis need to be attached to a separate bench, so you need to invest in building or buying a bench (why don't they provide them free?). I just finished building a bench for my brother-in-laws 25 years-old but never set up or used lathe and we spent about one hundred bucks on materials -- just plywood, a couple of 2 x 6s, a couple of 2 x 4s and some bolts, washers and nuts.

They also don't come with lathe tools (again, where's the benefit of ownership). They also don't come with chucks (you get the routine by now).

With the add on bed extension, they are all longer between centers than a Shopsmith, but they only have swings from 12-14 inches, which is less than a Shopsmith. Motors run rom 3/4 hp to 1 hp --also less than (some) Shopsmiths. This matters, as the article points out, because even starting with perfectly balanced large diameter blanks, the 3/4 horsepower models failed a torque test the authors devised and wouldn't have been adequate for turning to capacity.

These midi lathes offered variable speed via a dial within several speed ranges, but then you have to move a belt to get to the next range -- not as convenient as a Shopsmith. While the lowest speed on any of them was 300 RPM most were between 500 and 600 RPM. While that's lower than a standard Shopsmith's low speed of around 750 RPM, you still wouldn't want to work a large out of round or unbalanced blank at these speeds (and the machines don't have the torque for it anyway). And there is no capability to get to lower speeds with an add on, as you can with the Shopsmith Speed Reducer.

Also, the article casually points out that "not all the tools rests stayed put" in use. And there's no Universal Tool Rest add on for rock solid tool support.

They didn't discuss run out in the article. I suspect if they had, it would be no better than the Shopsmith with a new bearing in a single bearing quill or a double bearing quill.

So, my point is, even if you buy a brand-new dedicated lathe you may find the lathe cannot do all that you want it to do and you may find that you cannot buy upgrades to it (new or used) to make it do those things.

I suspect that some of the people criticizing the Shopsmith own one of these midi lathes, which the article points out have their own limitations. I suspect some will now run out and buy a bigger and better lathe.

[BigSky]

Well stated, algale. Dusty - you need to cool down. Go out into your shop and make some sawdust or lathe clips.

[billmayo]

I've my Shopsmith for over 7 years now, and have yet to use it. It's a green model.

I recently found a fella who has started to show me how to turn wood (the reason I bought it).

I just have the spur drive and dead center that came with it. I've been looking for a good deal on a nova G3, and have found a pretty good one. However, what is really Pi@@@ng me off about SS, is the fact that you pay through the behind for these things (unless you buy a used one - which I did), and then they charge you 30 bucks for a manual. 10 more bucks for a supplement to the manual. there are NO perks to being a shopsmith owner. a lot of the products SS sells that are made by other manufacturers (the nova G3, for instance) are more expensive from SS, than other places (even with having to buying the adapter at other places).

anyway, i've been doing a lot of research, and I keep hearing about the wobble, because of the single-bearing quill. well, according to SS, the 2-bearing quill upgrade does not work with the gilmer drive systems (what I have). SS even says the single-bearing quill is less accurate and has problems with wobble and runout. they, themselves, are admitting this machine is not accurate. Do I want to be turning a pen that has less than 1/8" of wood on top of the inner barrel, with a machine that doesn't turn true?

i bought this thing, mostly because of the lathe functionality. what is everyone's honest opinion on the accuracy (ie, wobble and runout) of the lathe function? it would seem to me, that by extending the quill, you are making it less stable.

it may be good for pens and candlesticks, but that is not what i'm interested in doing. i'm also not interested in chasing this thing all over the shop (doesn't sound real safe).

if you couldn't tell, i'm kind of irked with my purchase 7 years ago, and am trying to think of a reason to keep it.

is every other forum on the internet that is not a Shopsmith forum wrong?

normally, i would say, yes, a tool snob is going to say everything else is poor quality. but when every other owner of a different tool brand agrees with each other than one brand is a "alright" jack of all trades, but a poor specialist, i wonder. when other brands of this type of device are referred to as "a more heavy duty shopsmith," it doesn't inspire confidence.

i would like honest opinions on the lathes functionality.

I find that it is craftsman, not the tools that produces great results. I have several metal lathes that I use for a specific function. I also have a Gilmer (Greenie) Shopsmith that I have several metal lathe chucks that attach to the arbor. I am able to use the Shopsmith lathe for very precision work (+_.001 runout) such as boring the control sheave end for deeper bearing location so I have room to stake the bearing. It is all about knowing the capability of your tool and how to use it to its fullest advantage.
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With a dial indicator and sometimes shims, I have always had great accuracy doing metal work on this Shopsmith. I am sure it would be able to do the same for any woodworking tasks.

[JPG]

For once, I am in tune with Dusty, but I gotta wonder if he read the guy's second post. Maybe he put him in the 'ignore' pile!:rolleyes:

BTW, what are lathe 'clips'?:D

[charlese]

Salty - You just don't know how you can do with your Shopsmith unless you try it. Here's a recent post from a guy (Culprit) that has the same machine as you (green) and gave the lathe a whirl while not even having any late tools. http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpost.htm?p=105032&postcount=1 Seems that the machine worked good enough.

Suggest you try this with a square (or almost square) length of wood. First saw slots corner to corner in one end. This will give you the center of that end. Also saw or mark corner to corner on the other end. Now drill a short hole in each end at the center using a 1/8" bit.

Now the drive center will fit in the first end and the dead center will go into the other end. If you have some beeswax or other wax - smear some on the dead center. This will keep the contact from smoking or burning.

Now turn on the lathe with the tool rest close to the wood and apply your tool. It is best to use a roughing gouge at this point rotated at an angle. You must touch the tool to the wood in order to get a feel of how to shape a piece of spinning wood. Try to keep the bevel of the tool parallel to the length of the wood.

I don't know what you want to make on the lathe, but just rounding a piece will give you a feel. I'm sure you can do this regardless of a little run out. Remember the first lathes were foot pedal operated and must have had quite a bit of movement. Still many objects were produced in days of old.

Here's a recent post from a guy (Terry Downing) who made some excellent bowls on his Shopsmith. http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpost.htm?p=106948&postcount=1

[trainguytom]

First, I'll apologize that I haven't read all the posts in this thread...read some at the start & then a couple just above this one, so maybe I just missed it, but I was just wondering, since the "wobble" or perhaps accuracy of the Smith seems to have come into question as it relates to other lathes, are we saying that other lathes are inherently accurate? Is there any reason to assume that dedicated lathes are simply dead on?

I really don't have anything to base this on other than old fart stubbornness, but I actually believe that the Greenies (and, no doubt, all the others as well but I have kind of a soft spot for Greenies) were built to a standard of tighter tolerances than a lot of expensive tools are today.

Heck, I turn pens on one of my 10er's & they're as nice as anybody's I've seen done on new high end lathes, so as for me, I think I'll simply wonder if the newer high end dedicated lathes are as accurate as my old Shopsmiths.