Newbie with used 510: how to measure cut on table saw

[Ed in Tampa]

Ed, you have to calibrate that magnetic rule and even then you have to remember the kerf effect. Your steel scale, is it marked off in 1/16" or 1/32" or maybe even 1/64"?

Old dogs do learn new tricks. I now use the magnetic rule ("rip scale") all the time. I can always find it but I have to hunt for the tape measure. My steel rule hangs on the wall but it is a cheapy, it's only marked in 1/16" increments (first one foot is 1/32"). What good is that anyway. Do you only have to be precise for the first foot - after that "close enough" is good.

Charlese, with all your story boards and calibrated blocks of wood, how do you every find them. Do you have a cabinet for all the "measuring devices?

My 18 inch scale is marked in 1/8 and 1/16 on one side and 1/32 and 1/64on the other. My 36 inch scale is marked in 1/16. I hang both right above where I usually work. Grab them in an instant.

I know how to setup and align the rip scale on my SS but I have found that by forcing myself to slow down a little and reach for my steel scale that I'm less likely to make a mental mistake in my measurement. I have found that using the rip scale on any table saw will usually result in a measurement mistake on my part. That isn't to say I never make a mistake using my scale I still do but they occur a lot less often than when I use the rip scale.

I really believe it is how I was taught. 50 years ago when I first started using a tablesaw most didn't have a very good scale. My shop teacher drummed into to us to either use a story board or a measuring scale and to use our thumb nail to hold our measurement on the scale/story board and compare it to our lay out line on our project. This visual and physical double check has prevented me from making many many bad cuts in some pieces of irreplaceable wood.

Last time I just used the saw rip scale was when I cut two sheets of 3/4 MDF on my son in laws Unisaw that sat in a panel island (8 ft of support to the left right and back of the saw and 4 ft in front) His scale was set up perfect. He made the adjustment and I double checked. The pieces were all 1/8 too short. Forgot the kerf which I would have instantly caught had I used my measuing scale. I was keeping the factory edge against the fence to insure perfect 90 degree cuts. Incidently that was also the last time I used a table saw to reduce sheet goods to size. Way too old to horse around 4x8 sheets of 3/4 mdf.

What really made me mad was the fact I turned down the use of a $32,000 panel saw to cut the MDF. I didn't want the owner to fuss with all the MDF dust. The next day the owner of the panel saw demonstrated that for $32000 you not only get a accurate saw you also get excellent dust collection.

[JPG]

Nick's 'tip' can be 'altered' to make it easier/less time consuming.

Take the square and extend the layout line over the edge to the face which first contacte the saw blade. Now position the workpiece next to the sawblade teeth as he did.

This reduces the distance from the blade to the worlpiece to zero.

Re Lubricatiion - What did you Grease? Watch this.

For oil get some 'turbine' oil in a zoom spout bottle. 3 iin 1, sewing machine oil will also be good but the zoom spout bottle makes it much easier.

Lack of proper lubrication(oiling the sheaves) is what 'kills' most ss. Fortunately they can be resurrected.

[Ed in Tampa]

Nick's 'tip' can be 'altered' to make it easier/less time consuming.

Take the square and extend the layout line over the edge to the face which first contacte the saw blade. Now position the workpiece next to the sawblade teeth as he did.

This reduces the distance from the blade to the worlpiece to zero.

Re Lubricatiion - What did you Grease? Watch this.

For oil get some 'turbine' oil in a zoom spout bottle. 3 iin 1, sewing machine oil will also be good but the zoom spout bottle makes it much easier.

Lack of proper lubrication(oiling the sheaves) is what 'kills' most ss. Fortunately they can be resurrected.

JPG
Yes that is faster but you still can have a chance of parallex distortion show in the alignment. But if you sight down the line on the board and across the face of the blade on the side of your cut you virtually eliminate all chance of Parallex error. Sighting down the cut line allows perfect positioning of the cut.

[dusty]

JPG
Yes that is faster but you still can have a chance of parallex distortion show in the alignment. But if you sight down the line on the board and across the face of the blade on the side of your cut you virtually eliminate all chance of Parallex error. Sighting down the cut line allows perfect positioning of the cut.

Developing techniques like that, next thing you know you'll be working within .001s".

[JPG]

JPG
Yes that is faster but you still can have a chance of parallex distortion show in the alignment. But if you sight down the line on the board and across the face of the blade on the side of your cut you virtually eliminate all chance of Parallex error. Sighting down the cut line allows perfect positioning of the cut.

I agree and that is typically how I do it! I was offering a suggestion for any one who needs a more 'direct' approach.

Re Parallax: How can there be any if the blade tooth is resting ON the line? When positioning the workpiece it slides across the blade tooth. You just gotta remember which side of the blade tooth to align it to. Did I leave something out so that I was not clear? Remember Nick's tip involved setting a scrap piece and the square against the blade. My 'suggestion' eliminated the scrap and square and used the actual workpiece(the square was used to mark the workpiece).

[Ed in Tampa]

I agree and that is typically how I do it! I was offering a suggestion for any one who needs a more 'direct' approach.

Re Parallax: How can there be any if the blade tooth is resting ON the line?

JPG
Depth perception! Parallex can happen here just the same as it happens on a index pointer and rip scale. If you look from the side it looks like the pointer in on the line but it slightly off. To many people the SS setup in table saw mode is high for them to sight straight down to see if the blade is on the cut line is hard.

I remember in my early electronics all meters had mirrors behind the scale. When you read the meter you first checked to make sure you only saw one pointer. If the you saw two pointers (one in mirror besides the real pointer) you knew you were looking at the meter from the side and the reading that the pointer wasn't really the correct reading.

Again it is old school. I was taught to sight stuff where today some people use some sort of gadget. I think I saw Sears or somebody advertise a table saw with a laser that showed you the exact cut line.

[JPG]

JPG
Depth perception! Parallex can happen here just the same as it happens on a index pointer and rip scale. If you look from the side it looks like the pointer in on the line but it slightly off. To many people the SS setup in table saw mode is high for them to sight straight down to see if the blade is on the cut line is hard.

I remember in my early electronics all meters had mirrors behind the scale. When you read the meter you first checked to make sure you only saw one pointer. If the you saw two pointers (one in mirror besides the real pointer) you knew you were looking at the meter from the side and the reading that the pointer wasn't really the correct reading.

Again it is old school. I was taught to sight stuff where today some people use some sort of gadget. I think I saw Sears or somebody advertise a table saw with a laser that showed you the exact cut line.

Again I agree with your examples. However they all involved some separation(distance) between two objects that created the potential for parallax error.

My original 'simplification' of Nick's tip eliminated any separation between the marked workpiece and the tooth on the sawblade.

BTW I sight the blade to mark from above. The 'trick' is to see from a viewpoint which is dead on to the blade(no visibility of either side of the blade. This also allows to observe any tendency of the blade to 'wobble' and position the marked line to it. When one understands the 'old way' one does not need the fancy crutches/expensive gadgets. The laser devices do have some practicality for those situations where sighting is either impossible or difficult. They are however one more thing to be misaligned/adjusted.

[mindpilot]

As one of my woodworking instructors used to say; "you don't care if the measurement is accurate; you care that it fits."

So I'm a mark the wood and line it up with the blade kinda guy. But I don't cut to the line on the first pass. I cut real close, make sure it's gonna fit, and then the last pass I take less than half the width of the kerf. That last pass--since there is almost zero stress on the blade--gives a very smooth edge with no burning or saw marks.

[charlese]

Nick's 'tip' can be 'altered' ...
Take the square and extend the layout line over the edge to the face which first contact the saw blade. Now position the workpiece next to the sawblade teeth as he did.
This reduces the distance from the blade to the workpiece to zero...

Good Method! - J.P.! This is one of the methods, I use to saw miters for frames. To do this accurately, I find it necessary to work from the back of the table.
Another method, that allows working from the front of the table, is to use a straight edge lined up with the saw teeth and draw a pencil line on the insert and table. Then the marked workpiece can be lined up with the line on the insert or table. Yes the line on the aluminum table is faint, but it is usable. These lines come off with the next waxing.
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Dusty: Yes little wood blocks are kept in the center drawer of the workbench - (most of the time). They also get lost and sometimes they change sizes (loose accuracy). But for widths less than an inch, they are easy to make in the thickness planer. The brass blocks came in a plastic holder. They are always in the SS cabinet when not in use.

For lengths, I will use an old fashioned story stick, cut a piece of scrap to length, or use one of the longer sliding sticks (shown earlier).

[reible]

Good Method! - J.P.! This is one of the methods, I use to saw miters for frames. To do this accurately, I find it necessary to work from the back of the table.
Another method, that allows working from the front of the table, is to use a straight edge lined up with the saw teeth and draw a pencil line on the insert and table. Then the marked workpiece can be lined up with the line on the insert or table. Yes the line on the aluminum table is faint, but it is usable. These lines come off with the next waxing.

I like to use invisible tape... it really stays on for a long time when you want it to. See image of my insert with blade marked in this post:
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthr ... 485&page=2

This is really old school stuff but works. Miter gauge, scrap of wood, make a small cut (nick if you will), shut off saw, slide miter gauge and wood back to where tape is and mark with a fine tip.

Want to do the rip fence scale, use rule to measure say 2" from blade tip to fence. Make cut and check to see if it really 2", if so slide scale to 2" mark and you're done.

Just remember to change the tape when you change the blade.

Ed