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1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253564 by faultedgeologist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:25 am

EDIT: 1981 SN Shopsmith MkV with a frozen Idler Shaft bearing that takes speed control commands from the Quadrant arm inside the headstock. The Quadrant was damaged by the frozen idler spindle rotation, requiring replacement of both. Motor sheave and key damage caused rough movement in response to speed changes. All bearings could use replaced. Read below to see the process. /EDIT

I've purchased bits and pieces of cruddy HF and used gear for years to produce functional items and work projects with the kids. Time to step it up for a project my wife has begged me to make for years. Big secret for now... but I scored a Shopsmith!

She demanded I put work down and go for a walk to get coffee. A SS was listed locally on CL, then an eBay auction with tablesaw and jointer for pick up within an hour of my driving;-). A day later and I also scored the SS Pro Planer! Shop complete, for now.

Shopsmith Mk V SN: 1051XX on the body. Dude claims to be the original owner from a purchase appx 31y ago, meaning 1987. Per the site (http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/serialnumber.htm) this is a 1981, meaning this has a single bearing quill. Correct?

YouTube video with the motor noise.


The saw has the 510 style attachments, etc. Are there any other ways to tell model year, or do I just need to order the double bearing quill? At that point, should I just save for a new motor head?

I was excited thinking this was ready to go, then found this and the planer needs a bit of work on the rollers and blades. Guy was talking about buying stuff at auctions, so this is either really his and maybe not taken care of, or he scored it and flipped it. Either way it sounds not well maintained.

I love not buying new, sometimes hate buying used.
Last edited by faultedgeologist on Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253567 by ChrisNeilan » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:19 am

Welcome to the frey! Don’t worry about single vs double bearing quills. I have both and can’t tell the difference. Runout on both is neglible. Go through the maintainence procedures listed on this site in one of the “stickys”. If bearings are worn, they are easily replaced (well, easy for some). Oil it, then oil it again, and NEVER turn the speed control with the unit turned off! Did that already? Welcome to that club, we all did! There are posts here that will help you fix or undo just about anything. A very helpful community.

Edit- just watched the video on the youtube line (for some reason on my system there is no audio on the embeded link). It sounds dry, oil it. Also, you might want to do a low and high speed adjustment to set the speed control to spec. Something just sounded wrong... should not be difficult to get things like new.
Last edited by ChrisNeilan on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chris Neilan

Shopsmith Mark 7, Shopsmith Mark V 1982, shortened, Shopsmith 10 ER; Craftsman table saw (1964); Powermatic 3520B lathe

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Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your purchases!

If you have not already explored some of the other forum topics, I strongly recommend the top three "sticky" posts at the top of the Maintenance and Repair section. These three, especially the most recent one started by Everett Davis, are loaded with valuable tips about the history and maintenance of all types of Shopsmiths.

For videos on maintenance procedures, there are also the Sawdust Sessions and Video Shop Tips under the Woodworking Resources of the website.

Before automatically ordering parts, take a little time to get to know your machine. Go through the cleaning, lubrication, alignment and waxing steps first. Having hands-on experience of seeing how things work (or don't work) will help you know what you need to replace (if anything).

Pictures are also valuable to help diagnose any problem areas. Pictures of the name tag with the serial number for example, and overall pictures of the entire machine. There are many very experienced users here who can spot the smallest detail that may help determine the history of your equipment. It may not have started life as a 510, and the quill may have been upgraded. The quill can also be removed and inspected to determine if it is single or double bearing.

Your video is a great aid too ... it may be a bearing, but my suspicion is the speed control, based on the sound and how the speed dial looked a little hard to turn. There was just recently a discussion about that topic (one of MANY), and you may want to look inside at that component. See maintenance-and-repair-f10/model-510-loud-noise-as-speed-is-reduced-t21922.html

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253570 by WileyCoyote » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:08 am

It looks like the speed control starts to bind somewhere in the 12-2 o'clock position and requires some extra "umph" to get it turning again. I would pull the inspection plate and take a look inside, but only after reviewing the other threads or videos about similar issues.
And by the way, listen to the super-smart guys on here. They really know these machines like the back of their hands and will provide better guidance than you can get with any other brand. I have learned more on this forum in the last year or so than during the first 25 years of owning and using a Shopsmith.

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If you do anything by reaching through the inspection port on the rear of the headstock make sure the machine is UNPLUGGED from the outlet. Full line voltage is present on the back side of the switch when the machine is plugged in.
Bill V

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253574 by faultedgeologist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:25 am

wa2crk wrote:If you do anything by reaching through the inspection port on the rear of the headstock make sure the machine is UNPLUGGED from the outlet. Full line voltage is present on the back side of the switch when the machine is plugged in.
Bill V


Good call. I noticed those exposed wires. My daughter loves to "hix" things like bikes since daddy is always doing this. Going with a 12ga drop style plug above her height from the garage door opener for quick unplugs.

I oiled the two drop holes per the youtube SS guru guy, but it seemed like he was slopping the oil all over the speed plates. I'll get back in and open it up again.

The V-belt looks off a groove or two, as it appears diagonal. I would give it at least 1/4" flex, so maybe tightening up to the 1/8" spec I saw would help too. The speed belt is frayed a little on the edge so I want to replace and rebuild all at once.

Fresh bearings is key, and I have some good experience removing and pressing from bike rebuilding and restoration. I was just blown away by the double bearing quill price. Stuff like that should be done closer to cost by the company IMHO.

I tore through the stickies as the wine glass emptied last night; time to review it all agian!-). Thanks for the help, I'll post updates and start a thread on the planer restore.

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Welcome cracked earth guy! :D

First the SS is typically a very noisy beast. It gets louder as it ages(gracefully).

Yours seems a bit too graceful.

It seems to change speeds sporadically as you turn the knob. That is indicative of a sluggish floating sheave(the one on the motor shaft). That will also contribute to a hard to turn knob towards slow.

I suggest a revisit to lubricating the floating sheave. With it set to high speed(and unplugged) take the belt cover off and attempt to manually open the pulley by pulling out on the floating sheave. I [predict it will be reluctant to move. With it 'open' getting oil directly on the shaft becomes less of as challenge.(that teeny hole under the spring coils is IMHO mostly wishful 'thinking')

Now about the position of the poly-v belt on the pulleys. The control sheave is the same size(width/# vees) as the belt. The upper pulley has (IIRC) 5 more than the belt and should be in the third groove from the quill end(two empty grooves). If the poly-v belt is 'skewed, it is the idler sheave position that is creating the skew and that is 'controlled' by the in/out position of the idler shaft bearing/eccentric.

P.S. After taking a closer look at yours, it appears the poly-v belt is in the fourth groove(There are varying opinions re whether that is correct). If the idler sheave is positioned correctly, that may be the cause of any skew.

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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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What have ya done so far to the SS? Also when turning the speed down, go slowly to give time for the sheaves to close on the belts.

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SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob

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beeg wrote:What have ya done so far to the SS? Also when turning the speed down, go slowly to give time for the sheaves to close on the belts.


Actually it is opening the floating sheave that requires time to respond

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E(SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange

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Re: 1st SS! Neused MkV Video - Bearings, belt, lube, all 3?

#253592 by faultedgeologist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:17 pm

JPG wrote:
beeg wrote:What have ya done so far to the SS? Also when turning the speed down, go slowly to give time for the sheaves to close on the belts.


Actually it is opening the floating sheave that requires time to respond


Opening or Closing? Red zone or White zone? :D



Heh. I will go for slow on both for now until we have a quorum;-).

Per oil, 3-in-1 seems to be suggested, but the lube pdf says 10w30 oil with no detergent. I have mineral oil on hand and 4hrs till momma is back home. Assuming mineral oil is okay since it is in 3-in-1? Seems to be okay per searches.

I've mineral oiled the holes, and just hit the shafts. I've stopped at P-speed as it seems I've gone plaid. So I am supposed to stop it at low speed, but for lubricating it I stop at high speed?
Edit: I have tons of motor oils here. Avoid synthetic?

Hmmm... so just don't turn the speed dial while off, but stopping at Z-speed is necessary to lube?

Do I manually turn it back to slow by rotating the chuck?

Also, it seems like the speed control dial shaft is bent... see pics.

Thanks all. I love restoring things for some damned reason. I'd like a quiet and precise monster of a machine, so I'd like to know more. Pics in next post. Seems like rough gray paint on motor housing, so that indicates a post-1984 model, but the SN says otherwise. Maybe lost arbor cover and a replacement was bought? Would like to trust people but this seems like a frankensmith so far.

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